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Ketchaval

Beyond death

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Ketchaval    186
What if instead of having death (and instantly quitting to the reload, start from last checkpoint menu) in games, we had something more seamless.

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nihilisticod    204
Maybe something like an underworld, where your character has to seek out and find another "soul" which he/she must defeat in order to take over the associated body.

In an rpg or adventure game that could be an interesting element.. even if forced. You coud even have your characters mental or magical abilities remain but force a player to adapt to new physical limitations. Could be annoying, coiuld be intereting.

Souls could be more or less difficult depending on the body you would be winning. Another element would be that you make enemies (or friends) in the underworld, which could make the game really cool. Perhaps players could also commit suicide in order to effectively travel to a new location.. or maybe even to complete parts of the story in both lives.

For most FPS's, I don't think it would really work though.

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Jiia    592
Absolutely. Anything to remove save + retry cycles is a plus.

Myself, I just plan to annoy the crap out of my players by forcing them to save at specific locations. But death isn't easy to come by. You can get pretty beat up, crippled and blind, and still survive. The player may be forced to leave things behind or may even get a bad rep. The idea of a perfect play-through by saving and loading is discouraged.

Probably just made a bunch of enemies.

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nihilisticod    204
MMO's really can't allow users to save and load a game.. atleast none that I've tried. While the system in WoW is seamless and well integrated, I think it's far from creative because it's necessary.

Most single-player games don't do anything like that because it's not expected or necessary. Its acceptable to punish players for dying by making them load an older game. It's effectiviely the same thing as in WoW except that you just waste time walking back to face a situation that reset itself while you were gone.

I don't know about you, but knowing I need to reload in RPG's makes me a lot more careful. I am usually quicker to retreat if the possibility of death emerges. The save-load problem is more of an issue for me in FPS's where you don't have much time to react, and a tiny mistake can get your blown up.

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WeirdoFu    205
I think this system dates back to an old PC game called Messiah. I think it was somewhere arounf the time of the first GeForce series of video cards. In the game, you play a cute little angel that has a mission to complete. Alone you are powerless and easily beaten...very easily beaten to a pulp. So, you have to possess an NPC and take control of them. But to do so, you have to jump on their back. If they see you, they will instintively attack you as if you were some rodent. When the NPC you control dies, then you unpossess him and better find cover really quick. So, it was kind of a cross between an action game, a stealth type game, and an rpg of sorts.

I remember playing a little of it, but I'm not good at stealth, so died very quickly.

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Jiia    592
I was referring more to save + retry games where saving anywhere at any time is allowed. A lot of players beg for this setup. I think it kills the game, and prevents a lot of other interesting gameplay situations. If a player reloads after he lets his in-game girlfriend die, he'll never get to see that he gets special rage abilities later because of it.

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Ketchaval    186
Prince of Persia SOT / WW are pretty good at this, they allow you to rewind time (even after death) but you have to collect the sand of time to do so.

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This is a touchy subject, obviously, and you won't get a lot of support for it right now, since there aren't really any good examples out there. Players will think of all the bad things it will do to their current play style, but they have no precedent for the deeper implications it holds for gameplay, character development and story. I think SOMEbody should just go ahead and produce a system that does this well. Good luck.

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Multiverse    151
This subject reminds me a little of ShadowMan.

Forgive/corrrect me if some of my details are wrong, its been a long time since i played that game. Actually, I'm really unsure if this is correct, if it isnt, then consider it a suggestion of how 'death' could be handled.

Basically the game took part in two 'areas'. The real world, and the dead world. In the real world you had to perform certain tasks to track NPCs down. If you 'died' in the real world, you would be transported to the underworld/dead world/purgatory, where you would have to find your way back out into the real world.

Since you are already dead when in the underworld, you cannot die, but if i recall correctly, you had to 'dispose of' a certain number of enemies to charge up something-or-other to get back into the real world, where you could continue on your quest.

Additionally, certain tasks had to be completed in the underworld to open up new areas in the real world, such as new time periods in history where some of the NPCs lived (the NPCs in question were maniacs/psychos/serial killers like Jack the Ripper).

I think thats somehwere near the mark, feel free to correct anything if i've got it wrong. :S

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rmsgrey    153
In Soul Reaver, "death" in physical just drops you back to spirit world where you need to find a portal and regenerate your health to full to get back to physical. "Death" in spiritual dumps you back at the start location with a long walk to get back where you were (shorter if you've been activating the warp portal devices as you go. Of course, you could also drop back to the spirit world from the physical any time, and many of the game's puzzles required you to travel in the spirit world for a while between manipulating objects in the physical.

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Beige    188
Be careful that in making it seamless, you don't simply add a chunk of repetitive time to a player already losing.

Assuming this isn't an MMORPG, there's no real benefit to a time sink.

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HunterCyprus93    126
There is a new game coming out called Prey, and all I've seen so far is one of the trailers for it. It has an interesting way of dealing with death. When you die, you go to a sort of a spirit world, where these blue and red spirits are flying around you. The blue ones represent your "spirit health" and the red ones are your physical health. You have a bow in this spirit world and you have to shoot enough of each of these spirits to fill your life back up. Once you do this, a portal opens up in the middle of this little area, and you jump back in to your body.

All of this I have gathered from watching the trailer, so don't take it as fact. But if you are into FPS games, I suggest you check it out too

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I remember a game called "Prey" being hyped as the first truly 3D adventure in, I don't know, maybe the early- to mid-nineties? I specifically remember one of its primary features being the ability to "look in one direction while moving in a different direction!" It never came out. Is this the same project? Boy, I hope not.

For my part, I hate mini-games for resurrection. I can't imagine them being implemented such that I would prefer them to a quickload. Like Beige said, a timesink is nobody's friend. If you're going to make death a very important event, with a heavy cost, then it should be rare and genuinely costly. You should have to be totally FUBAR to die. If my ship has fighter escorts, warp boosters and an escape pod, then death is my own dang fault. I should have to deal with the consequences of my hubris.

Don't deviate from gameplay. If the game makes me stop playing every time I die, I'll just reach for the power button and go do something else instead.

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Gehazi    108
In the indomitable Quest of Yipe! III, you went to "Yipe! Hell" when you died, and were revived with 1 HP. You had to visit Hell's gatekeeper to leave, and either bribe or kill him. If you killed him (not easy), you had a free pass out of Hell for the rest of the game. Otherwise, you just paid money.

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