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TravisL742

Xbox 360, Ps3, Nintendo Revolution Coding

111 posts in this topic

Quote:
Original post by Malal
Jsut going back a page to Anon who said small, low budget teams can't do anything potentially AAA

http://www.projectoffset.com

Malal


I have to agree with the AP, what you have there looks very nice, but basically it’s a couple of selected scenes and a few model animation demo's. All skilfully done by people who know their stuff, but nothing more than what you'd see in most competent peoples portfolios.

Also if you read the website carefully, they are looking for some serious investment to ramp up numbers and make the project commercially viable, its clear they know they need much more money and many more staff to take this to market.

They are clearly gifted people (think there are just 3 of them) but to get that to AAA standard they need a lot more help, and that supports the AP's argument I think.
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Original post by blueshogun96
I really hope that Microsoft's XNA doesn't force us to use C++ like the XDK did.


Last I checked, there wasn't much in the way of actual APIs in XNA anyway.
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Since this thread was dredged up, I figured I would post a reply.

from Anon poster
Quote:
Original post by Anonomous
"show me one hobby game in the top 20...go on? Top 40 then?"


Rollercoaster Tycoon. Designed and created by 1 person, Chris Sawyer. In addition he did all the add-on packs, and the sequal Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 and it's addons.

Granted it wasnt technically a "hobby", it was done by one person and easily reached the top 20, and at one point I believe it was in the top 5 (sales numbers), selling millions of copies.

While it is possible, it is very very rare.
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RCT was not "designed and created" by one person. Check the game credits. Sawyer may have done the bulk of the design, and he did all the programming, but there were other people onboard doing things like artwork.
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guy I started out as a big noob in game dev with big Dreams (very big MMORPG big) and I think for starters dont set any goals becouse youlle never get to make them (publich game etc.) I think you should find your self a team in help wanted and work with them for a while until you get the hang of it
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Quote:
Original post by Riviera Kid
http://www.idsoftware.com/business/team/

maybe my browser is broke but i dont see 100+ employees.


I think you'll find thats the core team, the big cheeses, the head honcho's, the people in the spotlight..no mention anywhere of QA or R&D people for example, who do exist on a team like this, or get outsourced. Read game credits to get some idea of the number of contributing people in a project.

Everyone is getting very hung up on this 100+ employees thing, I think thats actually probably true in many if not most cases, especially in production line companies who throw manpower at a project to bring it in on or near time.
There are many smaller companies like ID though who don't need so many people because they essentially fund themselves and have a done when its done attitude...But they do still have very large and often very highly skilled (and expensive) front line teams backed up by large support teams, that may not get so much credit or coverage...

Not all companies can operate like ID, or Epic, or Lionhead etc, and take a relaxed approach to developing their own ideas, thats something of a luxury and its a bit childish to hold these exceptions to the rule up as examples of the rule being wrong.

The original AP post was making a valid point, perhaps aggresivly, it does need a fair sized team of people, and support teams, to produce anything thats going to hit the charts these days, comments on RCT are interesting but it was what, 94/95 when it first came out...10 years ago?

Things have moved on. Sony,Microsoft and even Nintendo have standards they expect to be met that requires more than a hobby team or individual can hope to supply in any kind of realistic timescale. Marketing needs a track record to sell the game, and publishers need to know...not think, know, they are going to make money.....

There will probably always be a niche market for odd new genre's that pop up every couple of years and take off, like RCT, that are relativly easy to code but offer great gameplay, and a new gaming experience, and could be put together quickly by a small team.

But they need to be stunningly different and genre forming to succeed. This is a design issue more than a development issue though,and a totally different
thread.
Todays games really are nothing more than constant re-polishing of small set of tired genre's that get better only in terms of presentation, the content having died long ago.

I think its quite possible for a few select people to write Quake vs Doom 5 in their bedroom with their incredibly talented mates doing the art after school, and their classmates doing QA...but it'd take 10 years and by then ID will have moved on new things that the marketing people will lap up because they can sell it on the ID name, not on J Q Coder's name, even if he did spend 10 years on it.

ahhh so many tangents...so little time.
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Agreed. Epic's constant blathering about how much better they are than everyone else because they only need 30-40 people to make a game are utterly disingenuous. The number of people involved is a meaningless statistic. The important factor is how many MAN-HOURS it takes. Or more generally, how many man-years (for projects of this scope). Does Epic make games with much smaller teams than EA? Yes. Do they take three times as long? Yes. EA's model is inefficient (because adding more people to a project always involves some loss of productivity), but the real difference is that EA wants their games done somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 months. They're willing to sacrifice some overall efficiency to get that done, which means putting a ton of people on the project.

Sure, you can make a game with 20 people. Think about it. You can make a game with 1 person. It'll just take you ~20 times longer.
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Well I'm always hearing people having hard time creating MMO's and making your product work on XBOX and stuff. It is not true for me, I have made the connections to get my game on the XBOX 360. Also I'm a one man team(at the moment) with a HUGE MMO in development. The game is almost ready for outside testers. I have a small budget less than $2,000.00, however I was able to do all this. The Xbox 360 devkit will require some more money, but nothing anyone serious cant come up with. The most expensive part to game development I find is the Art(1% done in my game, all cheap placeholder art right now).
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Quote:
Original post by Warvstar
Well I'm always hearing people having hard time creating MMO's and making your product work on XBOX and stuff. It is not true for me, I have made the connections to get my game on the XBOX 360. Also I'm a one man team(at the moment) with a HUGE MMO in development. The game is almost ready for outside testers. I have a small budget less than $2,000.00, however I was able to do all this. The Xbox 360 devkit will require some more money, but nothing anyone serious cant come up with. The most expensive part to game development I find is the Art(1% done in my game, all cheap placeholder art right now).


$2000, and 1% art done, and a 1 man team...And you've already got an Xbox 360 deal lined up...yeah, ok, sure I'll buy that..Not.....sorry forgive me if ask for a bit more proof there :)
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Quote:
Original post by Homers Pal
Quote:
Original post by Warvstar
Well I'm always hearing people having hard time creating MMO's and making your product work on XBOX and stuff. It is not true for me, I have made the connections to get my game on the XBOX 360. Also I'm a one man team(at the moment) with a HUGE MMO in development. The game is almost ready for outside testers. I have a small budget less than $2,000.00, however I was able to do all this. The Xbox 360 devkit will require some more money, but nothing anyone serious cant come up with. The most expensive part to game development I find is the Art(1% done in my game, all cheap placeholder art right now).


$2000, and 1% art done, and a 1 man team...And you've already got an Xbox 360 deal lined up...yeah, ok, sure I'll buy that..Not.....sorry forgive me if ask for a bit more proof there :)


Maybe it's possible if he's related/friends with a higher up at MS and he's the next Will Wright etc... You never know....
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Or maybe it's possible he's full of shit. I seriously doubt there is anything playable in this huge fantasy MMO. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Either way, save that $2000, it's going to have to be about $10,000 for a Xbox 360 dev kit, and the tester kits are a couple grand each last I heard as well.

These numbers direct estimates from MS themselves at gamefest 2005.
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$10,000? That is nothing to a serious indie. I dont think your wrong for doubting this, I have not given enough proof on my website yet. Once I finish the new terrain engine I will commence the alpha test, you are welocome to join. BTW, who is the latest guest on my forums? I really need to get rid of that feature, just signup already.
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That's the point a 1 person team who says they have single handledly created an HUGE MMO that is about ready to begin testing doesn't sound like a serious post. Like I said, would love to be proven wrong. Screenshots? Feature list? Maybe we have differing views on what level of completion is implied with the statement that it's ready to enter external testing.
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don't know if it has been posted yet but: http://www.gcdev.com/
and it won't work with VC on GC because tthe processor architecture!
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I have a few screenshots in the forums, however just wait a week and I will have a video up on the main site. Oh yea, and the game is nowhere near completion, it is partly a RTS game and therefor need's allot of game balancing.
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Quote:
Original post by Warvstar
I have a few screenshots in the forums


Indeed you do...

http://www.futurelands-thegame.com/futurelands/viewtopic.php?t=2
http://www.futurelands-thegame.com/futurelands/viewtopic.php?t=4
http://www.futurelands-thegame.com/futurelands/viewtopic.php?t=8

... but unfortunetly, they simply illustrate that your chances of getting this released on an Xbox 360 are exactly 0.
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Quote:
Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
Quote:
Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
Is it still a "rumor" that Nintendo Revolution will allow homebrew games to be made on it? Or has that been squashed?

So I guess no one knows?

As far as I'm aware, what was actually said implied something more along the lines of "we won't make it impossible for indies to acquire dev kits"(meaning they might eliminate the 'need many shipped titles requirement' and change it to something like 'meet X requirements OR pay Y royalties to nintendo') and/or "we might hire indie game designers that have good ideas in entry-level positions so that one of our teams can create games based on their ideas"(so they can essentially 'steal' indie ideas either for new games or to incorporate as parts of existing games).

I'm not certain, though.
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Quote:
Original post by Warvstar
I have a few screenshots in the forums, however just wait a week and I will have a video up on the main site. Oh yea, and the game is nowhere near completion, it is partly a RTS game and therefor need's allot of game balancing.


ah Yes
Torque, I love that crossbow!!! Well tis a fine engine, even capable of doing some 1st rate games accross platforms, but Xbox 360??? no son, get a grip will you. You really have not got a clue.

Reviewing your post history you got interested in Torque a year or so ago, so I guess you started coding about then? So I'm surprised you've got so little done, as Torque already gives you most of what you're showing there. In fact this is pretty much the standard Torque demo.

I admire your enthusiasm and spending time on getting a project together, but don't bullshit on forums where there are people who know a little about what it takes to produce a game. Torque is nice, good for learning how things work and even putting together some pretty solid FPS's and racing titles, or an RTS on PC. But your not going to get anything on Xbox using the old Torque engine, and you sure as hell have 0 chance on 360.

As others have said here, be realistic, get your game finished, learn from it, and WHEN you know what your talking about, start thinking about a console game.
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Ok I should probrally remove those screenshots, in reality I dont even use TGE, those shots are very very old(about a year).

I use TSE, and yes it works on my Xbox360 so do other TSE games. STHU and wait for me to release the video.

Everything on my forums are true and make for a good game, it is only the art that is standard TGE art and like I said a year old. I have been working mainly on core technology, stuff that you will see in my video.
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Quote:
Original post by Warvstar

I use TSE, and yes it works on my Xbox360 so do other TSE games.


lol. you are very funny...very very funny.

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Here is proof of TSE running on Xbox360, it sells through Live Arcade.
http://www.xboxcircle.com/portal/content/view/697/1/
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Quote:
Original post by Warvstar
Ok I should probrally remove those screenshots, in reality I dont even use TGE, those shots are very very old(about a year).


I've a hard time believing that as they were posted on the 13th Oct 2005, i.e. just over a month ago.

Quote:
Original post by Warvstar
Here is proof of TSE running on Xbox360, it sells through Live Arcade.
http://www.xboxcircle.com/portal/content/view/697/1/


It is indeed proof that GarageGames have ported their game 'Marble Blast' to the Xbox 360, and that Microsoft have accepted it as a high enough quality product for them to publish through Live Arcade.

It does not necessarily follow though, that GG have ported their entire Torque engine to the 360, or that MS will accept a partially finished game with no graphics from a 19 year old with no previous game development experience.
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