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What is the perfect beginner's game engine that is powerful but easy?

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Hello...I am ReneGade RG (I'm not gonna tell you my reall name)...call me RG. 9 months ago, I picked up DarkBasic and started learning it, I was surprised with the results, then I picked up DBPro and made a very very simple FPS... After that, I decided to stretch my dream of game programming even further and now I found this... Go on www.realmcrafter.com Good or what? But I was wandering whether there were some other good game engines out there! I tried Unreal but I don't own a full company and I don't have the skill and knowledge to learn c++... I tried Quake-2 but it just looked too primitive....I tried BigWorld but I ain't a professional mmorpg developer with a huge budget.... I want to find a good game engine that I don't have to own a big company to be able to use....You could probably tell now that I am under the age of 18... So can you recommend a good game engine for an under-18 that is easy but powerful at the same time besides RealmCrafter (can't wait to make my own mmorpg with RealmCrafter). Recently edited: I'm looking at Torque over there....sweet! If you recommend a c++ game engine, please also post in a GOOD c++ tutorial.... [Edited by - ReneGade RG dev on July 29, 2005 10:50:40 AM]

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Original post by ReneGade RG dev
I tried BigWorld but I ain't a professional mmorpg developer with a huge budget....


Don't forget that servers and bandwidth also cost money. MMORPGS are expensive to run, as well as develop.

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So can you recommend a good game engine for an under-18 that is easy but powerful at the same time besides RealmCrafter (can't wait to make my own mmorpg with RealmCrafter).


Neverwinter Nights is a commercial game designed from the start to be highly moddable. It's a few years old now, and the engine is a bit dated, and it's not really 'massively' multiplayer. However, I would recommend it for a number of reasons.

1: It is highly modifiable and scriptable, and there is a large community with a plenty of knowledge about how to do things. There is also plenty of readily downloadable content already available.

2: It's cheap. You can buy the complete game and both expansions from play for under £20, and there are no licensing fees for running your own PW. And if you give up on it, you still have a complete game with thousands of downloadable single player mods and a wide range of online servers to play on.

3: It's a learning experience. You will find that creating a half decent PW that can run stably with just 64 players is a challenge. This will make you better able to appreciate and approach the problems with developing a full scale MMORPG in the future.

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Recently edited: I'm looking at Torque over there....sweet! If you recommend a c++ game engine, please also post in a GOOD c++ tutorial....


'A tutorial' is not going to help you work with a complete game engine. If you want to work with Torque or something similar, and have reason to believe that you are likely to need to modify the underlying code, (as opposed to just scripting) then you will need to be a proficient programmer and well versed in a wide range of areas. Game Engines are big, complicated beasts, they aren't something you can cover in a few easy steps.

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It looks good....so I'm gonna try using it to make a simple rpg and I'll use RealmCrafter to make an mmorpg!

Server and host problems I'll deall with later!

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Neverwinter Nights is a commercial game designed from the start to be highly moddable. It's a few years old now, and the engine is a bit dated, and it's not really 'massively' multiplayer. However, I would recommend it for a number of reasons.


What do you necessarily mean by not "massively" multiplayer.

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I changed my mind greatly!

No, the NWN engine is terrible....you can't create your own models....the license agreement restricts me from doing anything big with the game....it kinda sucks on its own...the answer is NO!

I need to find something that's actually GOOD....that thing isn't....

Now what powerful, easy but not so restrictive game engines can I use?

[Edited by - ReneGade RG dev on July 29, 2005 10:56:49 AM]

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Original post by ReneGade RG dev
you can't create your own models


Several thousand downloads on Neverwinter Vault would like to disagree with you there. The CEP for example adds a whole load of monsters, weapons, character models, portraits, and other bits and bobs to the game, and all of it was created by the modding community.

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the license agreement restricts me from doing anything big with the game


Depends what you mean by 'big'. I've heard of PWs based on Warhammer 40K, Star Wars, as well as all sorts of more traditional settings that still involve all kinds of clever scripting and modifications.

I'd still recommend it, since it would enable you to get a clearer idea of some of the challenges you are likely to face developing a MMORPG, without taking on the enormous volume of work that is required to create your world entirely from scratch.

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well....can I create my OWN models? (I want this to be MY game)
am I allowed to sell the game? (that was a rhetorical question, the answer is no).

more questions coming up....

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Original post by ReneGade RG dev
well....can I create my own models?


YES.

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am I allowed to sell the game?


No you can't, but this is a non-issue. The chances of successfully creating a marketable MMORPG straight off the bat with no experience is approximately nil, regardless of what engine you use.

In any case, I'm primarily recommending it to get experience. It's nigh on impossible to develop a successful MMORPG by jumping off into the deep end without really knowing what you're doing. You may not be able to create your dream game in it straight away, but it the experience you get from it will help you when you *do* come to create your dream game.

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I'm not really asking for an mmorpg.... (I'm already using RealmCrafter!)

What software can I use to make the models (I use milkshape3d but that's not gonna help me much, right?)

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...
learn patience... asking several times after each other will only make me hesitate to answer anything at all...
If you really want to make something then patience will be something you need to learn. And you'll probably have to face the reality that games/engines are not as easy as you think they might be.
On one hand you say that NWN engine restricts you too much, on the other hand you ask for a C++ tutorial... The latter lets me think that you have practically no idea what you should do and you think you could use an engine to produce any result at all?
I think nearly everyone aims too high at the beginning...
With patience you could really reach some of your goals...
Without patience, there is no hope for you.

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From the FAQ:

B3D, 3DS, MD2, X format are supported.
So you can use any software you like which can output these formats.

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No.

Why care about whether you will be able to sell your game? You seem to think that creating a game is as simple as picking up a pencil Well it isn't, so you have zero chance of completing one as far as I can tell.

In which case, buy Neverwinter Nights, or Unreal Tournament and learn to mod them. After a while and some hard work and success, you might appreciate what is involved in creating a game of any kind.

Listen to what people are telling you.

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Original post by ReneGade RG dev
What software can I use to make the models (I use milkshape3d but that's not gonna help me much, right?)


Models for what? RealmCrafter or NWN?

I don't know what formats RealmCrafter supports natively, but MS3D exports to most things so I'd imagine it would work. As for NWN there's a freely downloadable plugin for importing/exporting NWN mdl files on the MS3D website.

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Original post by ReneGade RG dev
I have practically no patience....I'm sorry about that...
answer these questions above!


You're damn right you have no patience. You waited 3 minutes before you posted again!

So about modelers. Browse through this thread and take a look at what is available. I have found 3DS Max to be a good learning tool because it ships with a large collection of tutorials. You can get it free for a trial period. Blender is nice too, but took me a lot longer to learn.

Good luck.

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Original post by stodge
No.

Why care about whether you will be able to sell your game? You seem to think that creating a game is as simple as picking up a pencil Well it isn't, so you have zero chance of completing one as far as I can tell.

In which case, buy Neverwinter Nights, or Unreal Tournament and learn to mod them. After a while and some hard work and success, you might appreciate what is involved in creating a game of any kind.

Listen to what people are telling you.


That wasn't my point....I don't want to sell my game! I've made simple games before and I know! The thing is that I care about the level of free choice I can have, understand? ....And selling is free choice....I'm not actually gonna sell the game (it's not even gonna reach that quality) but I want the choice to do so to still exist....

I've already created some games from scratch with no game engine....I already appreciate enough! It kinda makes me really angry that you posted this in!



___________________________________



I want a good modeller to create models for NWN. RealmCrafter works with .3ds , .x and .b3d

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If DarkBasic isn't powerful enough for you and C++ is too much for you to learn (right away) then you should join the modding community.

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Original post by ReneGade RG dev
Quote:
Original post by stodge
No.

Why care about whether you will be able to sell your game? You seem to think that creating a game is as simple as picking up a pencil Well it isn't, so you have zero chance of completing one as far as I can tell.

In which case, buy Neverwinter Nights, or Unreal Tournament and learn to mod them. After a while and some hard work and success, you might appreciate what is involved in creating a game of any kind.

Listen to what people are telling you.


That wasn't my point....I don't want to sell my game! I've made simple games before and I know! The thing is that I care about the level of free choice I can have, understand? ....And selling is free choice....I'm not actually gonna sell the game (it's not even gonna reach that quality) but I want the choice to do so to still exist....

I've already created some games....I already appreciate enough! It kinda makes me really angry that you posted this in!

How did you create your previous games? In another language? If you asked for a C++ tutorial then you probably used something different. Did this experience not teach you any patience? I can't believe that a person without the patience to wait for 3 minutes for an answer would be able to finish a game. I might be wrong though... I always needed a lot of patience and own research to create something which wasn't even finished in the end. Sometimes I spent days only to find out how to approach a problem. You don't sound like you would be able to do something like that... Just thinking aloud... Don't listen to me :P

Even if you start modding existing games, I think you should aim lower... Maybe first make the uber-crap-mod and then include models, make your own crazy features and stuff...

edit: this really might sound as if I would want to prove that you never made a game... but this is about showing you that patience is most important.
There will probably be no engine which has exactly what you want and then you have to understand it to modify it... For this you would have to know how to code. Maybe I'm wrong... I've never used an engine nor modded a game.

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Original post by coderx75
If DarkBasic isn't powerful enough for you and C++ is too much for you to learn (right away) then you should join the modding community.



But what results can I achieve if all I do is add abit of dialogue and place some already-made 3d models around a screen? I'll check out UnrealScript....

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I just remembered that it's possible to use gmax with NWN. So you can use a powerful modeller which also happens to be completely free.

I'm not sure where exactly the required scripts can be found, but a quick google search brought up this link which should point in the right direction at least.

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Original post by BiGF00T
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Original post by ReneGade RG dev
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Original post by stodge
No.

Why care about whether you will be able to sell your game? You seem to think that creating a game is as simple as picking up a pencil Well it isn't, so you have zero chance of completing one as far as I can tell.

In which case, buy Neverwinter Nights, or Unreal Tournament and learn to mod them. After a while and some hard work and success, you might appreciate what is involved in creating a game of any kind.

Listen to what people are telling you.


That wasn't my point....I don't want to sell my game! I've made simple games before and I know! The thing is that I care about the level of free choice I can have, understand? ....And selling is free choice....I'm not actually gonna sell the game (it's not even gonna reach that quality) but I want the choice to do so to still exist....

I've already created some games....I already appreciate enough! It kinda makes me really angry that you posted this in!

How did you create your previous games? In another language? If you asked for a C++ tutorial then you probably used something different. Did this experience not teach you any patience? I can't believe that a person without the patience to wait for 3 minutes for an answer would be able to finish a game. I might be wrong though... I always needed a lot of patience and own research to create something which wasn't even finished in the end. Sometimes I spent days only to find out how to approach a problem. You don't sound like you would be able to do something like that... Just thinking aloud... Don't listen to me :P

Even if you start modding existing games, I think you should aim lower... Maybe first make the uber-crap-mod and then include models, make your own crazy features and stuff...


sigh....I used DarkBasic...The only reason I wasn't so patient was because I was really frantic and excited to find what replies I could get!

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