Techmo's whole Deception series is built around the exclusive use of traps against Heroes. While i haven't managed to play the first two, Deception 3 was pretty fun, running around and dropping them into pits, or throwing boulders down flights of stairs. XD
I think the more options the player has with his environment the better, since it helps foster greater tactics and more diverse playstyles. With Triggered explosives in Planetside, people often set traps around corners, in Control Room's, and some unlikely places, sometimes even using themselves as bait to lure someone in. ;D
The thing with that though is that it takes time to swap between your "trap" trigger and your weapons, so its difficult to wield both at the same time effectively, requring careful timing to make sure you kill him with the trap, or dumping it alltogether in favor or your weapons.
How many of you would make traps out of a level?
Thanks for the great responses. Follow up question:
Let's say that you're a squad fighting another squad for control of ruins which you've mined and trapped. You both need to gain control of a room in order to get expensive equipment out, and keep playing cat & mouse trying to block each other off.
Should there be a game mechanism whereby the other squad gets smarter at noticing and disabling your traps as time passes?
If you set a mine, for instance, they'll trigger it from a distance; if you've created a deadfall, they'll jump over it; etc.
Let's say that you're a squad fighting another squad for control of ruins which you've mined and trapped. You both need to gain control of a room in order to get expensive equipment out, and keep playing cat & mouse trying to block each other off.
Should there be a game mechanism whereby the other squad gets smarter at noticing and disabling your traps as time passes?
If you set a mine, for instance, they'll trigger it from a distance; if you've created a deadfall, they'll jump over it; etc.
Quote:Original post by Wavinator
Thanks for the great responses. Follow up question:
Let's say that you're a squad fighting another squad for control of ruins which you've mined and trapped. You both need to gain control of a room in order to get expensive equipment out, and keep playing cat & mouse trying to block each other off.
Should there be a game mechanism whereby the other squad gets smarter at noticing and disabling your traps as time passes?
If you set a mine, for instance, they'll trigger it from a distance; if you've created a deadfall, they'll jump over it; etc.
Yes, but I think it's a delicate balance. In games where it's TOO easy to set up some kind of trap for the enemy to walk into, I feel like I'm cheating by abusing the crappy AI. In some games, if you put some mines down, there is no way for the AI enemy to actually notice them or do anything particular about them; your chance of blowing them up depends entirely on whether the random pathfinding algorithm has them run right through the minefield or get stuck on a wall somewhere.
Having the enemy AI actually notice the traps/mines and visually/audibly make that known to the player ("Hey, look out! A trap!", or springing a bear trap by shooting it) would be really cool. But if they were too good, it would either be frustrating, or lead you into looking for loopholes in the enemy AI, which would again make players think using traps was a "cheap" win.
Quote:Original post by Wavinator
Just an exploration, out of curiosity: If you could rig triggers into the environment, would you bother with making up your own puzzles to trap / disable / kill enemies?
Yeah, it gives variety of control over the environment so you are not reliant on solely predesigned weapons or tools/utilities. It gives the player more creative freedom to design their own solutions withing games.
Quote:
If you had weapons, but constantly had to *find* ammo, would you bother getting elaborate about digging pits or getting creative with the environment. Or would you need to have absolutely NO WEAPONS in order to justify playing like this?
Do both, why one of the other, you'd satisfy a larger array of player's different approaches to play. I read something about this in The Theory of Fun by Raph Koster which may apply here, but naturally, I can't recall it right now. A scan through the doc should turn it up pretty easily.
Quote:Original post by Wavinator
Should there be a game mechanism whereby the other squad gets smarter at noticing and disabling your traps as time passes?
I think it would be fun, as long as it was controllable as a selection from the configs, like, "Let opposition get cleverer/faster/deadlier in response to your defense designs"
Quote:Original post by WavinatorShould there be a game mechanism whereby the other squad gets smarter at noticing and disabling your traps as time passes?No, I dont think so.
From the sound of the scenario, it doesnt really sound like there would actually be time to really learn how to spot traps. I would agree with something as low level as only two states (1. not searching 2. searching for traps), but having a squad "somehow learn" to spot traps feels like cheating, to me.
I would suggest instead of simply making the enemy smarter to provide extra challenge, a more appropriate option might be perhaps to look at level design. Rather than getting progressively smarter at searching, instead turn the problem around and design the terrain to make it progressively harder to hide your traps.
It would also work if setting traps would effect the game later. If you trap someone perhase they are picked up by your side and brainwashed to help you.
They could:
Suport you in a later level.
Give you a new gun.
Unlock a part of a level.
You can be camafloged as the later
ect.
Something like that would make it cool.
They could:
Suport you in a later level.
Give you a new gun.
Unlock a part of a level.
You can be camafloged as the later
ect.
Something like that would make it cool.
Surprisingly people i play against fall for the same traps a couple of times, if not repeatedly before they catch on. I think it would be a little tricky to have them learn, but in Planetside there are only so many tactics to use to avoid traps so I could see it being possible. They'll skate the edge of the wall to avoid any explosives just around the corner, or throw EMP grenades into rooms before going in, etc.
The thing i've learned however is how to exploit them knowing towards my own ends. If I kill them enough that they start to always throw an EMP into the control room, then i wait with my gun out for them to toss in their grenade, and then blow a hole in them during the time it takes them to switch back to their guns, or i wait outside and trail behind them and wait for the right moment to strike. Gameplay becomes more deceptive and complex when you manipulate peoples expectations towards your own ends.
The thing i've learned however is how to exploit them knowing towards my own ends. If I kill them enough that they start to always throw an EMP into the control room, then i wait with my gun out for them to toss in their grenade, and then blow a hole in them during the time it takes them to switch back to their guns, or i wait outside and trail behind them and wait for the right moment to strike. Gameplay becomes more deceptive and complex when you manipulate peoples expectations towards your own ends.
It would also work if setting traps would effect the game later. If you trap someone perhase they are picked up by your side and brainwashed to help you.
They could:
Suport you in a later level.
Give you a new gun.
Unlock a part of a level.
You can be camafloged as the later
ect.
Something like that would make it cool.
They could:
Suport you in a later level.
Give you a new gun.
Unlock a part of a level.
You can be camafloged as the later
ect.
Something like that would make it cool.
wheel of time - www.wotmaps.com
is worth a look. FPS using UT engine with traps built into it's CTF style mode. You had to go around your base and place the traps to defend against invading troops. Things like pits, spikes, mines etc.
I think the key thing to look at is why you might be setting traps?
Usually - the games i've set traps in - it's because my character is too weak to take on the enemy.
* Baldurs Gate had traps (Yoshimo had a good one) although i only used it a few times.
* Diablo 2 - (assassin) plays with lots of traps.
* Dungeon Keeper traps made things fun. :) evil is good.
* Go watch Home Alone. terrible movie which i haven't seen in year - but the traps might give you ideas.
Another example of "traps" is things like baiting thrall into a bottleneck and annihilating them with my dwarves in Myth. Especially when seeding the area with mines.
The demo level for Myth 2 (that convinced me to buy the series) involved infiltrating a castle with an invisible dwarf. That dwarf could be used from the battlements to blow up troops below. You could bait them with archers - they'd come and follow and then you'd blow them up.
It's not a physical trap - but the environment works like one.
my $00.02:
Do it. Make the bad guys too powerful to easily take out with weapons. Force the player to think creatively on ways to beat them.
is worth a look. FPS using UT engine with traps built into it's CTF style mode. You had to go around your base and place the traps to defend against invading troops. Things like pits, spikes, mines etc.
I think the key thing to look at is why you might be setting traps?
Usually - the games i've set traps in - it's because my character is too weak to take on the enemy.
* Baldurs Gate had traps (Yoshimo had a good one) although i only used it a few times.
* Diablo 2 - (assassin) plays with lots of traps.
* Dungeon Keeper traps made things fun. :) evil is good.
* Go watch Home Alone. terrible movie which i haven't seen in year - but the traps might give you ideas.
Another example of "traps" is things like baiting thrall into a bottleneck and annihilating them with my dwarves in Myth. Especially when seeding the area with mines.
The demo level for Myth 2 (that convinced me to buy the series) involved infiltrating a castle with an invisible dwarf. That dwarf could be used from the battlements to blow up troops below. You could bait them with archers - they'd come and follow and then you'd blow them up.
It's not a physical trap - but the environment works like one.
my $00.02:
Do it. Make the bad guys too powerful to easily take out with weapons. Force the player to think creatively on ways to beat them.
This topic is closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Popular Topics
Advertisement
