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Possible Time Extension

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Ok, I know this might just get a NO, but is there any chance of a time extension for 4E4? I know the date is probably set in stone because of the participation of sponsors, but I know it would help my team put out a better overall game (less quirky features, more time to tweak). Even though this seems a little early to say tweaking, I am taking into account the fact that school and work are about to come back up for most people in the fall etc etc. So.....

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Wouldn't that be a little unfair on those of us who are working towards the given deadline? Part of the contest is planning so that you'll be able to finish your product by that date.

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I've been considering entering the contest because I"ve had an itch to do it for a while. The only problem is that I haven't had time up until recently. I'd like to enter and any time extension whether it be a day or a month will help out.

Plus it gives those who are putting together massive projects a little more time to work with and make even better entries.

Go time extension ^_^

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Rules are rules. I'm not a judge so I'm not speaking as a rules maker but I'd guess that Kevin will not offer extensions on the time. I suppose to some degree it's an exercise in time management. Sometimes you have to scale back your plans to accomodate deadlines.

Besides, it wouldn't be fair to all of those who are working toward that deadline.. *especially* if they already have in a built-in buffer of time to perfect their entry.

---
Michael Tanczos

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NO. No time extensions. I'm sure that more time would help everyone's team make a better game, but it has to stop somewhere. Mike's pretty much spot-on - we're indirectly judging your ability to schedule your project with this.

There's still three whole months to go. You may have school and suchlike to cope with coming up; some people have full day jobs to work around, and have had them throughout the competition. You have the easy time of it.

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Oh trust me...thats exactly what I'm doing.

And just for precedence, 4E2 had a one month time extension. It helped out a lot of people and allowed more people to enter. If I remember correctly, it was Kevin who initiated the 1 month extension.

My offer is still valid.

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That's because Kevin's just a big softie.

4E2 was two months long. This one's five months, which you can probably see is more than twice as long. I'm sure that any time extension of any amount would help someone get their entry into a mildly more finished state, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere. If we grant a one month extension, somebody will ask for an extra week on top of it because of some excuse, "and you already extended it one month, an extra week can't hurt," and before you know it the thing just falls apart.

The people who undertook massive projects should have known that they'd only have five months from the beginning in which to complete them. If they've got more work planned than can be squashed into the available time, that's unfortunate but it's their own fault.

Bear in mind that people are perfectly free to continue working on their games after the contest is finished. The time limit doesn't compromise the quality of the game, only of what they manage to enter.

I'll admit to not having talked this over with Kevin because he's very busy at the moment, so if you're absolutely determined you could try and persuade him to overrule me on this. But I think you'd have a hard time of it.

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I woudln't want to undermine those who have spoken, so I respectfully ask if those who responded would be open to the idea of a time extension if Kevin were?

I would also like to add that by allowing people to have an extension, it will dramatically increase the production value of many games being developed. As game developers, we all know that the last few weeks of any game development process is probably the fastest paced period of development. This is especially true for independent developers with small teams. By raising production value on the games being developed, this may allow GameDev.net to have even more sponsors for future contests. If I had any say on this, I would say that its a small move to produce a much larger positive effect on the site and the community. And as a long term member, I too have interest in the development of this community.

One last point to finish off my statement. While the last 3 four elements contests were 3 month long contests, they were only intended to be based around tech demos. However, this four elements contest is the first one to be based around actual game play and not eye-candy. So now we have the element of eye candy, ear candy and the biggest one: game play. So consider the 1 month extension. It might actually be profitable to the site as well as helpful to the developers.

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I for one think that extending the dead line is a HORRIBLE idea, everyone who started on this project wether it be early or late saw the dead line, and came up with a project that he/she could of finished in time. This will be unfair to those people who actually accepted the dead lines as DEADLINES and planned their game with only enough features designed to be programmed within the set amount of time they have left. I started about a week ago and I think I still have more then enough time to enter and probally rank good. Like superpig said this is also a way for the judges to see how we can schedule our time, if you were a contractor you are given a deadline for when the project is suppose to be finished. If you go past that deadline you are charged HUGE amounts of cash for everyday that passes. In the real world sure if people give you a second chance to finish something, I bet we would all like that. But the reality is that rarely happens and you cant count of deadlines being extended if you think you cant finish in time. If people decide to join now with asperations to create Quake 4 for the contest and only have 2 months to do it, then instead of changing the deadline people should think about changing their stratedgy and design.

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Quote:
Original post by TempHolder
I for one think that extending the dead line is a HORRIBLE idea, everyone who started on this project wether it be early or late saw the dead line, and came up with a project that he/she could of finished in time. This will be unfair to those people who actually accepted the dead lines as DEADLINES and planned their game with only enough features designed to be programmed within the set amount of time they have left. I started about a week ago and I think I still have more then enough time to enter and probally rank good. Like superpig said this is also a way for the judges to see how we can schedule our time, if you were a contractor you are given a deadline for when the project is suppose to be finished. If you go past that deadline you are charged HUGE amounts of cash for everyday that passes. In the real world sure if people give you a second chance to finish something, I bet we would all like that. But the reality is that rarely happens and you cant count of deadlines being extended if you think you cant finish in time. If people decide to join now with asperations to create Quake 4 for the contest and only have 2 months to do it, then instead of changing the deadline people should think about changing their stratedgy and design.


If you really think extending the deadline is a horrible idea for the purpose of simulating industry situations then I think you should reconsider what you're saying. Most IT projects alone go over budget due to poor management. And according to seasoned professionals that I've personally spoken to have also said that Game projects *always* go over budget. You should really consider that us as independent developers don't have the same time or discipline due to experience AND financial backing. A one month extension in this case isn't costing shareholders thousands of dollars a day to keep a facility running.

Also, I still don't understand the whole idea of how time extensions aren't fair. How can changing something across the board be Not fair? If one person got a time extension and nobody else did, then it would be clear that it was unfair treatement. However, this is not the case.

I also don't understand why you would rather not have an extension. As competitors of the four elements contest, I would always strongly recommend the MOST time possible. In the least bit, you would have an extra month to go through bug testing. (I hope you have that phase even planned out)

Its not like we're being Duke Nukem Forever here. Some of us are just asking for a 1 month extension. And for those who planned in advance, this is just icing on the cake...1 month to bug test.

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Quote:
Original post by nes8bit
Also, I still don't understand the whole idea of how time extensions aren't fair. How can changing something across the board be Not fair? If one person got a time extension and nobody else did, then it would be clear that it was unfair treatement. However, this is not the case.

I also don't understand why you would rather not have an extension. As competitors of the four elements contest, I would always strongly recommend the MOST time possible. In the least bit, you would have an extra month to go through bug testing. (I hope you have that phase even planned out)


Those of us who have properly planned out a schedule (including some buffer time within the deadline) could very well be disadvantaged by the fact that others who've done no planning (or planned poorly) will be able to complete thier entry.

Planning time usage is a part of game development, and if your product can't be ready in time for the deadline then the results should reflect that. With the quality of some of the entries being worked on, it would be quite beneficial for those who are working on less ambitious projects if some of the larger ideas were unable to be completed.

In short: Some of us a planning to "ship" our product by the deadline, and will have tougher competetion from others who's ideas were overly ambitious for the original timeline if the deadline is extended. Planning to meet the deadline is part of the process.

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I don't understand how you could possibly say that Some people would have the upper hand on others due to an extension for Everyone. That alone just doesn't seem to sit right with me personally. But I guess that is just me. If a time extension is really going to burden everyone rather than help, then I guess I could work just as fine without one. I think its silly to push for a stricter deadline however. It just makes it harder on yourself. And I'm a firm believer of doing this better rather than doing things harder.

Also, if anyone else has something positive to say about time extensions then now is your time to shine. I know I can't be the only one that would prefer a time extension.

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If the time is extended, then a whole bunch of people who may otherwise fail to complete thier over-ambitious projects may be able to succeed. More entries reduces the chance of any given entry recieving a prize. Ergo an extension is potentially negative for those of us who have already taken the time into account, as it may increase our competition.

It wouldn't so much be giving some people the upper hand as taking the upper hand away from everyone who is working on schedule.

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It wouldn't so much be giving some people the upper hand as taking the upper hand away from everyone who is working on schedule.


Exactly, a time extension would harm those of us that planned our game according to the contest deadline. If the contest deadline was originally a month later, then more features and a larger project would have been designed. Now that we are well into the project it is too late to go back and add features without destroying the overall design.

And if the reason for extending the deadline is so we can get better quality games in the contest, then why not just extend the deadline to 4 years? Basically an extension would do more harm than good for most teams that already designed their entry and started work on it.

And extending a deadline on the basis that "games always go over schedule and overbudget" would be a real good way of getting yourself fired as a project manager in any company I've worked for.

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I might've actually entered if the contest was around a week longer. .NET 2.0 is supposed to be officially released on November 7th, I believe, near the end of the contest judging, so any .NET 2.0 program is thus probably not going to qualify. I was planning on learning C#/MDX using the new .NET 2.0 stuff, and would have considered letting the contest provide me with additional motivation, but the dates ended up just a little off. (I suppose I should mostly blame Microsoft for taking so darn long with .NET 2.0.) Oh well, c'est la vie.

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xD Chronus we don't need it. (I hope 0.o) I've been slacking off on the easy stuff, but thankfully HL2 has loading times, and I have pen and paper. I'll find a scanner or camera and upload my plans soon.

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I'm glad you guys all agree with me. And when everyone needs time extensions, I'm going to "WTF" and "I told you so" all over the place.

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a month time extension is to much, but im sure a 15 day would be great, why ? because even when you plan things haed of shedule to meet the deadline sometimes things happen and all can go wrong, even when u plan, thats just life, i think after the deadline closure we could have more 15 days to deliver the project, each day that passes we would have a penalty on judging points.

it doenst mean it has to be 15, could be 5 or 10 days. NO one would want to loose judging points, but if something happens, one could have some more days to catch up, just imagine you get sick a week from the deadline, or some realtive dies, or some emergency comes up, just imagine you plan to submit your game in the last day possible, and some emergency comes up, and you miss the deadline by 2 days, how would you feel ??

im sure the world would collapse for me and i would lose all my motivation for future projects, but thats just me.

besides, it wouldnt be one more week that would make an over ambitious project completed, or helped added one more thousend features for a well planned deadline design.

just my 2 cents.

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If the justification of an extnesion is to improve the quality of entries then obviously the contest should be extended to approx 2 years so fully-featured pro games can be entered.
But people should plan their entries. If they know they're very busy then don't enter or plan a very simple project, perhaps using 3rd-party libraries.

If it would allow .NET2 to be used, a short extension might be sensible since that's actually a reason...

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Original post by mustra
a month time extension is to much, but im sure a 15 day would be great, why ? because even when you plan things haed of shedule to meet the deadline sometimes things happen and all can go wrong, even when u plan


If that happens, then either it's something of a massive scale where 15 days wouldn't help, or you havn't really planned all that well. I don't know about everyone else, but when I come up with a plan that involves finishing by a deadline my plan involves "buffer time". In the case of 4E4 I plan to finish by October 10. This leaves me with 21 days of time for additional bug testing if everything goes to plan, but if something happens and throws off my plan it means I have to be thrown off by a full 21 days before it's a problem.

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Quote:
Original post by Kazgoroth

If that happens, then either it's something of a massive scale where 15 days wouldn't help, or you havn't really planned all that well. I don't know about everyone else, but when I come up with a plan that involves finishing by a deadline my plan involves "buffer time". In the case of 4E4 I plan to finish by October 10. This leaves me with 21 days of time for additional bug testing if everything goes to plan, but if something happens and throws off my plan it means I have to be thrown off by a full 21 days before it's a problem.



Same here, our current schedule allows for about 2-3 weeks of "polish" time and fixing any remaining bugs after the game is basically complete.

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