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[web] What do I have to know for web development ?

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Quote:
Original post by Ekim_Gram
The Forum FAQ is usually a nice place to start off.
Quite fitting that this is a web dev forum, really... [smile]

FAQ

Anyway, I guess the most important thing would be a firm grasp of basic HTML and CSS. A good knowledge of a scripting language is useful - PHP and ASP are both pretty straightforwards. Talking to a database is something you'll do a lot of in a lot of web development stuff, so being comfortable with SQL is always useful.

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Ok. If I want to take the .NET path, what are the things that I have to know to be able to implement server/client sides (at professional level). Please try to give me the complete list.

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I would say probably some of the biggest things in professional development of any kind is:

a) Knowing how to research for yourself.
b) Knowing how to learn for yourself.
c) Being self-sufficient.

Obviously that isn't the complete list, but you can research the others on your own quite easily.

Asking what you need to know is a little redundant, as you need to know how to build what the client wants and to be able to do it on time and on a budget.

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Quote:
Original post by Saruman
I would say probably some of the biggest things in professional development of any kind is:

a) Knowing how to research for yourself.
b) Knowing how to learn for yourself.
c) Being self-sufficient.

Obviously that isn't the complete list, but you can research the others on your own quite easily.

Asking what you need to know is a little redundant, as you need to know how to build what the client wants and to be able to do it on time and on a budget.



...Snob...

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Original post by SKATIN_HARD
Start with just basic html then move on from there into more advanced topics and technologies.


So, knowing html is a must, right ?

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Quote:
Original post by cpp_boy
Quote:
Original post by SKATIN_HARD
Start with just basic html then move on from there into more advanced topics and technologies.


So, knowing html is a must, right ?


Yes it is. You can kind of compare it with the foundation for a house.

You need a basic understanding of HTML to be able to do any real web development.
Check out the W3 Schools' tutorials: W3 Schools were you'll find tutorials on HTML, XML, Browser scripting, Server scripting, .NET, Multimedia and Web Building.

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Quote:
Original post by cpp_boy
Quote:
Original post by Saruman
I would say probably some of the biggest things in professional development of any kind is:

a) Knowing how to research for yourself.
b) Knowing how to learn for yourself.
c) Being self-sufficient.

Obviously that isn't the complete list, but you can research the others on your own quite easily.

Asking what you need to know is a little redundant, as you need to know how to build what the client wants and to be able to do it on time and on a budget.



...Snob...
Like it or not, Saruman is right.
For example, I do professional web development but have never looked into ASP.NET - namely because the systems we're developing work fine on cheap servers with old versions of PHP/MySQL. Does the fact that I don't know ASP.NET make me any worse at what I do? Not in my case, as the clients wouldn't know what the differences between ASP/ASP.NET/JSP/PHP/whatever were. They just want a system. You can't really make a list of things you "have" to know - apart from the very basics like HTML. Of course, I'll probably look into ASP.NET at some point in the future and if I can see a reason to use it and have a client who is willing to pay that little extra for ASP.NET hosting, so be it. Knowing what is available and being able to research a number of different options to try and fit what you want available to you into the budget is the important bit.

Of course, I could just list what I consider to be my useful skills for my job, and these are:

- Knowledge on how to set up a webserver. IIS under Windows and Apache. Seeing as we buy our hosting with the servers set up already, using .htaccess for our configuration is important. However, for local testing it's often much easier to use a locally running web server.
- Using SQL. Setting up MySQL, organising databases (the database structure is pretty important if you don't want to end up with an annoying and clunky design!)
- Scripting: PHP and ASP.
- Basic HTML and CSS.

Oh, and:

- Knowing how to use a search engine to find out about things that client requests, to see if we can integrate them with the system.

I can't think of anything else I need to know in my line of work. With all of the above, I seem to get by fine. [smile]

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One more question please. As I understand, when I'm using .NET I dont have to know html, I can just do c#, or there is some point in which I still have to know html (I'm total n00b in web dev so dont be angry)

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Quote:
Original post by cpp_boy
One more question please. As I understand, when I'm using .NET I dont have to know html, I can just do c#, or there is some point in which I still have to know html (I'm total n00b in web dev so dont be angry)


start with HTML do not worry about anything else for now. You _must_ know HTML if you want to do web dev. It's infinitely easier than .NET or C# and it's learning will occupy you for at least a few weeks.

-me

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Palidine
it's learning will occupy you for at least a few weeks.


C'mon, that's nearly an insult!

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html is a must for web development.

once you have learnt one scripting lanuage its fairly easy to learn another one.

my list would include this.

firm grip of how the web works
Html/xhtml
css
how databases work
SQL
Scripting lanuage asp, asp.net, php, perl etc


once you have mastered these get your self a portfolio.

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If you are going to go into any sort of job, lets look past the technical stuff, shall we? Web development is more than just putting together your knowledge of a few languages. If you are going to be doing this seriously, you need to get in on the industry and keep up to date with the latest best practices. This should be something you get used to early, i.e. as you are learning the languages. Learning best practices later is unnatural. You might argue that this is not required, but many reasons the web is in the state it is today is because of LAZY developers and BAD browsers that cater to those lazy developers.

Simply saying "I want to become a web developer." is much too vague. What is that you want to do, specifically? Build you own website to document your newborn or excel to the top to become a solution provider (gotta love them buzzwords) for the big guys? I would compare your statement to "I want to build a MMORPG" which most of us find insulting around here. This may or may not have been your intention, but even if it wasn't it shows a lack of initiative on your part. After all, people who don't even know how to use the web shouldn't be building the web, should they? This is why you have gotten some "snobbish" remarks.

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First, learn HTML (and by extension CSS too, the current standard for new web pages). You can do this right on your own computer without even installing a webserver. Do not proceed until you have a firm understand of HTML and CSS, as well as gone over the basics of DHTML and javascript.

Most likely you will be using a database, so you'll want to learn SQL next. Do not install MySQL at this point. Regardless of if you are going to use a LAMP/WAMP setup later on, it would be far better for you to learn standard SQL first, rather then have to unlearn bad stuff later (basically stay away from MySQL and Microsoft Access).

Options include SQL Server (Google for MSDN 2000, this is the free version), Postgre, Firebird, or if you have PHP you probably already have SQLite installed (SQLite is "light" as it implies, a fast embedded database that fits into a 100KB DLL).

Keywords to look for while learning SQL include "normalization" (please properly learn normalization, nobody wants to have to fix a website whose database looks like an Excel spreadsheet), "primary/foreign key", elements of ACID ("transactions", "contraints")

After all that you can figure out a server side platform to start learning, like PHP, ASP, ASP.NET, JSP (Java), PERL, etc.

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I'd include some javascript in your studies aswell. I've done done a few websites for people, and companies, and I've found that some standard knowledge of javascript for simple functions or animations to be very handy and quick to do.

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Quote:
Original post by Daedalus AI
I'd include some javascript in your studies aswell. I've done done a few websites for people, and companies, and I've found that some standard knowledge of javascript for simple functions or animations to be very handy and quick to do.



Can I use C# as scripting language (I'm very good in c#), or I must master javascript ?

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Original post by cpp_boy
Can I use C# as scripting language (I'm very good in c#), or I must master javascript ?
Serverside, yes.
Clientside, no.
Daedalus AI was referring to javascript as a clientside scripting language - it's great for confirmation dialogs/form checking/etc.

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Quote:
Original post by benryves
Quote:
Original post by cpp_boy
Can I use C# as scripting language (I'm very good in c#), or I must master javascript ?
Serverside, yes.
Clientside, no.
Daedalus AI was referring to javascript as a clientside scripting language - it's great for confirmation dialogs/form checking/etc.


As I see it, 99% of web-sites use javascript, even microsoft site. I guess I must master it also.

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To start with professional web development, you need to know how to create web pages. This can be accomplished easily with tools such as Macromedia Dreamweaver or Microsoft Frontpage, or even Microsoft Word. Basic ability to copy, paste, and edit sample code is a must. It is also helpful to have javascripts handy for blocking right-clicks, setting the browser window size, and redirecting people that aren't using Microsoft Internet Explorer to the Windows Update site. Knowing how to copy and paste XHTML strict doctype declarations at the top of every page is a big plus. Learn how to create complicated and confusing table-like layouts in CSS. The closer it resembles the Windows GUI, the better. Always specify size units in 'pixels,' or better yet, don't specify units.

Finally, you need to know the basics of chosing good URLs. Easy to remember URIs such as /products/widgets are a big no-no. Instead, use monolithic and nondescriptive URLs such as /index.php?category=324&page=3. Failure to do this could result in search engines thinking your site consists of more than one page.

</sarcasm>

Read style Guide for online hypertext.

Remember that good web sites tend to take a lot of effort to plan and very little effort to implement. Bad web sites take little effort to plan and a lot of effort to implement.

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Those are the books I took from my university library:

1.web design in the nutshell
2.XML - the complete reference
3.asp.net bible
4.web security, pricay & commerce

Currently, I'm working only with the first book. It is complete html source. As well as it gives you introduction to javascript, dhtml, xml, xhtml...
After finishing it, I'll proceed with the other ones.

I hope I'll finish those till beginning of studies (I have only 2 months !)

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I'm cool with all of your sarcasm there except your denunciation of CSS-based layouts. Maybe I'm taking it too far, and if so, I apologze now. But in my opinion, compared to tables, CSS layouts are so much better. You can entirely change the design and layout of a whole set of pages by changing just one file, and keep all of your HTML code very simple and clutter-free in the process. I'll admit that if you go beyond simple font formatting, the CSS code itself is confusing and has a high learning curve, but the flexibility really makes it worth it for me.

-Auron

Quote:
Original post by igni ferroque
To start with professional web development, you need to know how to create web pages. This can be accomplished easily with tools such as Macromedia Dreamweaver or Microsoft Frontpage, or even Microsoft Word. Basic ability to copy, paste, and edit sample code is a must. It is also helpful to have javascripts handy for blocking right-clicks, setting the browser window size, and redirecting people that aren't using Microsoft Internet Explorer to the Windows Update site. Knowing how to copy and paste XHTML strict doctype declarations at the top of every page is a big plus. Learn how to create complicated and confusing table-like layouts in CSS. The closer it resembles the Windows GUI, the better. Always specify size units in 'pixels,' or better yet, don't specify units.

Finally, you need to know the basics of chosing good URLs. Easy to remember URIs such as /products/widgets are a big no-no. Instead, use monolithic and nondescriptive URLs such as /index.php?category=324&page=3. Failure to do this could result in search engines thinking your site consists of more than one page.

</sarcasm>

Read style Guide for online hypertext.

Remember that good web sites tend to take a lot of effort to plan and very little effort to implement. Bad web sites take little effort to plan and a lot of effort to implement.


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Quote:
Original post by igni ferroque
Finally, you need to know the basics of chosing good URLs. Easy to remember URIs such as /products/widgets are a big no-no. Instead, use monolithic and nondescriptive URLs such as /index.php?category=324&page=3. Failure to do this could result in search engines thinking your site consists of more than one page.
Not everyone has access to mod_rewrite... [sad]

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Not everyone has access to mod_rewrite...

You don't need mod_rewrite. You can tack on additional path information to the end of CGI script URLs, and access that with the PATH_INFO variable.

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