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TechnoGoth

Victory Condtions in a RTS

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Well I’ve been looking at the 4 element contest for a while now and I’ve decided to submit a little RTS for the competition since it sounds like it could be fun. So the idea I’ve come up with is there are two teams the shadow guild (ninjas) and the Invaders (robots and zombies) there may also be a third human military faction if time allows. It will be an urban environment based rts with large numbers of civilians and little in the way of base building, and resource gathering. The shadow Guild uses small numbers of expensive units that are expensive to build and take along time to train. Their units however are customizable, there are a number of ninja skills and weapons and you can give a ninja any combination of them you choose. The more skills and weapons you give a ninja the more powerful it becomes and the more expensive and longer it takes to produce. Ninjas can operate solely or in teams of three. The shadow guild earns money by completing missions in map, such as rescue a VIP trapped in a zombie controlled part of the city, or disable a RADM (Robotic Alien Death Machine). The invaders have no resource gathering or unit construction instead they get so many invasions points with which to buy RADMs before the map starts. RADMs are large and powerful but can’t be replaced once lost. The player can deploy their purchased RADMs at any time during the level, so you can deploy all your assets at once or save a few in reserve for later. The bulk of the invaders force is created using the zombie virus. Civilians infect by the virus turn into zombies who shuffle around aimlessly attacking uninfected people and turning them into zombies. Zombies are slow but can take a lot of punishment and generally travel in hordes. There is an RADM called the slave master which is a floating pod that allows you to control zombies in the same way that squad leaders worked in Darwinia. A city block is considered invader controlled if the zombies out number the humans there. So now I’m wondering about victory conditions. The traditional total annihilation of the enemy doesn’t really work with this model. The shadow guild has a base called the clan hall but the invaders don’t have any structures. So what are some other ways of deciding the victor in an RTS? I’ve been thinking of a victory point system where sides accumulate victory points for doing different things and who ever accumulates a the most victory points after a certain time period wins, or the first to a certain victory point total wins. If anyone has ever played the games workshop tabletop games they work in a similar manner. Does anyone have any other idea for victory conditions? Or any thoughts on the rts elements? [Edited by - TechnoGoth on August 8, 2005 11:59:24 AM]

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A victory condition for ninjas could be to kill a given amount of RADMs assets, or to free a given number of zones from zombies.

Where Robots can win by destroying the guild hall, and zombies by either destroying the guild hall or dominating a given number of sectors.

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Quote:
Original post by Sparhawk42
A victory condition for ninjas could be to kill a given amount of RADMs assets, or to free a given number of zones from zombies.

Where Robots can win by destroying the guild hall, and zombies by either destroying the guild hall or dominating a given number of sectors.


I was thinking that destroying the guild hall and controlling enough of the city could be an invader victory condition but the problem is that it doesn't give then ninjas a counter balance victory condition. Unless I make zombies constantly loose in which case then maybe eliminating all zombies and the invaders ability to create new ones could be a victory condition. But those would be more of victory condtions for the human militay faction.

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Original post by TechnoGoth
I was thinking that destroying the guild hall and controlling enough of the city could be an invader victory condition but the problem is that it doesn't give then ninjas a counter balance victory condition. Unless I make zombies constantly loose in which case then maybe eliminating all zombies and the invaders ability to create new ones could be a victory condition. But those would be more of victory condtions for the human militay faction.


Could a victory condition for the Ninja's be to earn a certain amount of money, or something similar to that? And I mean earned in total, so the gross amount made.

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Maybe basic survival, or ensuring their own survival throughout the campaign. If the military factions primary victory conditions are the eradication of the alien/zombie threat, than perhalps the ninja's is more for simple survival?

I've made a few zombie maps for starcraft where the goal is rather simple, build barricades and keep your units alive for 20 minutes. You only get 8, and you can't get more (so choosing the right ones makes a difference). So simply fending off attacks and doing missions to get more supplies would work out pretty well. Sortof helping the human cause with Spec Ops they get payed for, but moreso looking out for number one.

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The Ninja Faction could leave after getting enough money, as said above....
^^^They're ninjas, they fight then leave...

If you were to add in a human military group, they would probably end up with stronger weapons but with a victory condition of destroying every other group.

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Couldn't it still be similar to other common RTS victory conditions.. destroy all opposition? The Ninja would lose if their units/buildings are lost, the Zombies would lose if they are all wiped out. The balance is that the Ninja would have the ability to construct buildings and spawn allies, while the Zombies will have the ability to infect enemies/neutrals and use them as allies.

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I orginaly came up with the idea for using victory points when thinking about the ninja faction the idea was that they get victory points for each mission they complete and win if when they get enough. But then I decided to extend it to both factions. Invaders get victory points for each sector in the city they control as well as a number of points for each ninja they kill based on its value. Like wise the ninjas get points for completing missions and for destroying RADMs. So if you set a play time of 1 hour then the winner would be the one with the most points after an hour.

What about a faction specific wonder victories? What do people think of them? For instance the invaders could have the ability to use zombies to build pylons if the build 5 pylons across the city then the other players have 5 minutes to destroy one or more of them before the pylons activate and the invaders win. The ninjas could win if they....

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One way to determine victory condition is to define plot. Even if it's a shallow plot it can help with game design greatly. Why are the aliens invading? What is their purpose for being there? Is the shadow guild there as defenders of the earth/city or are they only looking out for their own gains?

Lets say the aliens are invading for colonization (cliched, but what the heck). Their victory condition is %controll. If they control some percentage of the map, they win. Control could be defined as having a certain number of units within a location, with a certain lower number of enemy units and no combat currently going on.
If the Shadow Guild is playing the roll of defender of the earth, their victory conditions would be desctruction of a certain number of opponents, as the opponents are not replaceable.

The other option is rather than defining victory conditions, define loss conditions. The Shadow Guild loses when too many people are zombified. Provide a process for curing zombies, make it difficult to do. The invaders lose if too many civilians are rescued and escorted out of the city thus removing the zombie resources.

I'd say figure out the purpose of the conflict, then you should be able to figure out what constitutes a win or loss.

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