Game programming is hard to get into because it is in high demand and requires extensive knowledge. It does not pay as well as most regular software jobs. Salary charts show this.
Excuse my ignorance, but game/engine programmers don't really make all that much money? I was always under the impression that they made a considerable amount of money?
I'm a beginner at game programming, and I really mean beginner, but I'm a business software programmer, and have been for 4 years now.
I want to learn game programming because, making game gives fun results and what you learn programming games will make business software look easy.I don't expect to make games professionaly, but these skills will help me with my programming knowledge and skills and I'll be able to make games for kicks.
I think that these skills could help me get into more complex software programming like simulation or AI.
Basicly, what I'm trying to say is, no matter if I make it as a professionnal, the skills I think games can bring will help me and give me opportunity I don't have.It won't be a lost.Plus it makes it so much more interesting to learn complex math!
So , humm...yeah why did I wrote this, it's just to say that going into that is not the end of all means...if it doesn't suit you or you can't find a job, you could always take some classes to familiarise yourself with other kind of programming and you'll have the uphand on things. It's not lost!Plus you'll have advanced math for other kind of study(of course in Canada going back to University is not expansive, which I guess makes it easier to try something out and if it don't work out, go back and only do the specialise class of the other domain since we all do common classes)
[Edited by - Neo_Phyte on August 11, 2005 1:40:57 PM]
The true Don juan is the one that seduce the same woman night after night.
I can't speak for digipen, but I am doing a degree in Computer Games Programming BSc (at Teesside Uni in England, i'm pretty sure theres lots of unis in the US that do the same kind of thing). We have the option to take a year out of our studies before going into the final year, which i opted for (along with all the other sane programmers). It was pretty tough getting into the industry, especially as a student!! but one small company took me on and I've loved every minute of it. The hours can be quite exhausting, I've done a couple of 80 hours weeks, but this is a rare event :-) Most of the time its just the ol' 9-5 routine.
I would say the kind of person that is suited to become a games programmer is not someone that just loves games, u also have to be passionate about code (the kinda person that loves a challenge/problem solving). I got into the industry more for the technical side of things, I also happened to spend most my life playing games :-) But its certainly is hard work - and you gamers better be grateful ;-) :-D
Games designer (every kids dream job?! altho i'm sad, my dream job was being a programmer :-/).. I'd say thats something you can't just walk straight into... You have to have a real good eye for what makes a game fun, and some real creative thinking, and a good understanding of the workings of a game (knowing what can be done), and some experience in the industry from QA (game tester), art or code.
And yeah, the pay isn't great, but I think its something that increases a lot with experience, and theres is potential to earn quite a considerable sum. But whats more important, a big fat pay cheque or job satisfaction? ... can it be both? :-)
Another thing... once you learn all this game programming and stuff... lets say you goto digipen and get your degree in game programming.. Where do you go from there? Do you just like goto the nintendo of america and be like.. can I apply for a job? or do they recruit you from college or what?
Do you have any idea on how hard it is to get into digipen? And do you know if there are any game programming colleges that are known by game companies in new york or new jersey?
Game programming is highly erratic. I've been out of college for three years now... the first two years after graduation, I worked on database driven web sites. Boring, tedious, etc. Then, last october, I started working at my current job as a game programmer (internally, they use the term "engineer" to describe all of the people doing programming tasks).
We work on several projects at a time, and I've been shuffled around between a few. I'm currently the lead programmer on a small-time download-for-free PC game contract as part of some other company's advertising budget. Luckily, the milestone schedule is sane this time, and we're basically just putting the finishing touches on it. It's rarely this calm. We haven't had to work weekends at all on this project (which is actually quite surprising).
Commercial programming is often governed like this: Someone with money who doesn't understand all the details of game production tells you what to do, and you do it. Then later they realize they don't like features A, G, and Z. So you have to go in and change them. Then they again realize that the new version of feature G isn't working, so they suggest some other change. In the process of removing old features and replacing them, the code starts to get out of control. That's assuming that you can even get feature G to work as originally designed without using an absurd amount of processing time or memory. That's just how it is.
For console games, you constantly worry about whether you have enough memory, or processing time, or bandwidth for transferring textures, or disc access speed to load the next level in less than 30 seconds. You wonder whether the graphics hardware handles vector math for you. It becomes less and less of a "let's implement some gameplay feature" and more and more "how the heck can we even get it to work on this console?" There *is* a reason why console hardware is cheaper than PCs.
Some game companies don't even know how to run their business. Between my two database design/admin jobs, I worked at a game company that was "trying to make an MMO Naval Sim". What they actually had was a retail single player Naval Sim with a codebase that could not be converted over to using any networking whatsoever, let alone massively multiplayer scale. The "president" of the company was an extremely antisocial person, exploiting employees and basically pissing everyone off constantly. There are no game designers working for this company... the "president" basically dictates what the programmers and artists make, and anyone else's opinion is wrong.
After I learned the complete history of that company, I decided it was time to leave. Three of the five programmers working there left with me. The fifth programmer (the lead guy who helped found the start-up) left a couple months later. The "president" of that company has apparently hired/fired/lost a dozen other programmers in the last year.
I guess it's easiest to say that game programming is fairly unpredictable and is usually pretty stressful, but if everything works out in the end, you get an immense sense of accomplishment that only very few people feel in their lives. I've seen very serious, reserved developers break down crying after seeing the credits screen rolling by with their name displayed proudly. It's just that intense of a feeling.
Gaming is definitely a good career, but don't get into it for the money. Get into it for the love of games.
I'm currently a game programmer, and am loving it. While engineers could get paid more outside of the game industry, they're higher paid than most designers/artists (the exceptions being very very well established designers like Sid Meier or Will Wright).
Although I love it, it DEFINITELY isn't for everyone. First of all, it's very hard to get into (I have degrees from MIT and UPenn, 6 years of programming work experience and have started my own game company before I was able to get established in AAA game titles). Secondly, the work conditions can be rough for most people. I enjoy the stress and pace of development, but for most people, they burn out in a matter of months. You have to learn to manage your hours, and manage your manager's expectations for performance.
Listen to the other people on this forum, even though a lot of them don't work in the industry, they understand it very very well, and are great at giving people advice. I would suggest following what you enjoy, but don't plan on getting into the industry, and don't plan on it being your only job for your entire life. Even people who get jobs in the game industry don't stay here forever.
Especially as people get families, people leave the industry to find jobs that are more amenable to spending time with the kids, etc. Games programming as a hobby is a fantastic idea--you get all the fun of making cool games without any of the marketting BS telling you what to make, without CEO's breathing down your neck to make deadlines, etc.
I started programming out of pure interest about 15 years ago when I was a freshman in high school. Before that I'd toyed around with Atari BASIC and some games, and when Doom and Quake came out my interested turned to obsession. I never went to school for it because I didn't want to. As it turns out I was driven enough (i.e. I was compelled to do it because I loved it) that I didn't need to go to school. I've been getting a paycheck as a game programmer for about 7 years. The honeymoon is definitely over - sometimes I hate this job. But overall it's very good to me. I take great satisfaction in problem solving, and so I take great satisfaction from my work - somtimes. Other times I spend days on end screwing around with documents and emails and source control problems and blah blah blah. If I didn't still enjoy it overall I would quit and pursue photography or music. The thing that really makes this job worth it is the people you might meet in the process. I've been lucky enough to have personal and professional relationships with some wonderful people. Some are wicked-smart, others are just good people. A few are both. A few others just suck a lot :) My enjoyment of this CAREER is very separate from my enjoyment of this WORK. I always love programming. Sometimes I hate being a programmer. It all depends on where I work and who I work with - but not so much what I work on.
My opinion, based on my experience and what I've learned from others in the past 7 years, is:
If you really want to be a programmer and you love the idea of working on video games - then go for it! But don't force it because you will ultimately be disappointed and worse for the wear.
I will hopefully persue a game programming career in the near future.. I still have 2 years of highschool left and have time to think this out.
im still learning BASIC and C++ at the moment and hope to expanding my knowledge of programming before I goto college.
I appriciate all the insight everyone has given me. And if I have and more questions I know I can always ask you guys.
O and also.. to any ppl in the industry out there.. Any of you guys ever been invited or went to E3? I've always wanted to go there.. but I know its only for the people in the industry
Quote:Original post by MustEatYemen -Never get an ego. You are not god, your code is no the best in the world. Someone will ALWAYS be better then you. Accept it, and be realistic about your abilites.
I am terrible with this :P Then again I am used to assholes who say they are the best at what they do or whatever. Hope theres not much of this in the workplace.
