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Ketchaval

Lemmings - with heart?

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Lemmings was a great game, but it was also quite sadistic, how would you go about changing Lemmings to make it a game with more heart & soul to it?

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Well, the game did have you rescuing the lemmings - which has just given me the idea that it could be quite interesting to try the reverse; you get so many traps, and have to try to set up a level which will wipe out enough of the lemmings to cause them to fail. But back on the topic at hand...

You could perhaps reduce cases where lemmings become expendable or must die? A lot of the puzzles require blowing up 1 or more (sometimes quite a few) lemmings in order to succeed, and this is a violent action taken directly by the player, rather than simply being a function of the level design as many of the other deaths are.

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How about having Lemmings faint -Pokemon-style and being automatically captured in some way? This would reduce the element of 'death'.

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I think the combination of cuteness and sadism in Lemmings was a large factor in it's appeal. Too much cuteness on its own is no fun.

Other games have used that combination to great succes, e.g Creatures (C64)

Quote:

Well, the game did have you rescuing the lemmings - which has just given me the idea that it could be quite interesting to try the reverse; you get so many traps, and have to try to set up a level which will wipe out enough of the lemmings to cause them to fail. But back on the topic at hand...


Did you ever play Lemmings two player? Sabotaging your opponents rescue attempts was a crucial part of the gameplay. It's also a hell of a lot of fun.

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Original post by Kazgoroth
Well, the game did have you rescuing the lemmings - which has just given me the idea that it could be quite interesting to try the reverse; you get so many traps, and have to try to set up a level which will wipe out enough of the lemmings to cause them to fail. But back on the topic at hand...

There was a game named Lamers which was based on that. It wasn't as fus as Lemmings though...

Quote:
Original post by Sandman
I think the combination of cuteness and sadism in Lemmings was a large factor in it's appeal. Too much cuteness on its own is no fun.

Exactly. Like the original Worms games, before the new better graphics came about.

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Original post by Sandman

Other games have used that combination to great succes, e.g Creatures (C64)


I know this is a bit of a hijack, but someone else remembers this game?! Awesome, it was like one of my most favourite games EVER.

The cheat for creatures 2 was awesome too! (wet finger, rub up and down joystick port 1 (or 2, I think it was one), and a big creature comes up on in the background of the highscore screen and flaps around).

Ahhh the memories. [grin]

Has anyone listened to the Podcast "C64 takeaway"... it's this funny Danish guy presenting C64 remixes. http://www.slayradio.org/podcast/


Anyway, original poster... the way to get games like Lemmings less sadistic is instead of dieing they could be wisked away by helper animals to the hospital when near death or something. Like in Pikimin, though Pikmin can die in nasty ways, the main character always can get rescued and teleported back to the ship. I think Nintendo is the place to look for games with less grisily ending for characters (though of course, that's not always true) [smile]

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Clonk Planet does a good job of making the little guys more personable. For one thing, they're smarter. For another, they raise levels and become more useful to you. You keep the same named Clonks from game to game, and they grow and develop as they gain experience. You can control them directly, so they serve as avatars, but you can also set them tasks and leave them to it.

It helps that when they die, their little bodies stay there permanently, so you feel a little bad about killing them.

Also, the game objectives are pretty sophisticated. There's a real sense of purpose, especially in multiplayer co-op.

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Original post by Sandman
I think the combination of cuteness and sadism in Lemmings was a large factor in it's appeal. Too much cuteness on its own is no fun.


..... attempts was a crucial part of the gameplay. It's also a hell of a lot of fun.


I think that this is a very, very valid point. Most gamers don't want something that sounds like gooey sacharine headache cuteness, with fwuffy flowers and ickle kittens. It is like Pixar films, Toy Story sounded like it would be a kids movie but when you saw it it had lots of jokes adults could appreciate, whereas Finding Nemo doesn't work for me, (because it seems like more of a kids movie?).

Likewise, Pikmin didn't look appealing when I first saw it (because it wasn't quite hard edged enough). Although if I were to get a GameCube I'd try it.

Also I think this is part of the reason that games like Ico and Beyond Good and Evil didn't succeed (at market). There just wasn't enough oomph to the combat.

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Original post by Ketchaval
Likewise, Pikmin didn't look appealing when I first saw it (because it wasn't quite hard edged enough). Although if I were to get a GameCube I'd try it.


Although there isn't any gore in the game, the Pikmin are some of the most ruthless killing machines known in games. They'll relentlessly attack to the death creatures a hundred times their own size. This is recognised in the game by the hero, who comments that if it weren't for the fact he was the one pulling the Pikmin out of the ground he'd probably be a goner.

With respect to Lemmings, I thought the gore was a necessary component to make you feel a tinge of regret when any of the little guys died. I suppose you could make the traps a bit less lethal, but there's something very final about seeing your little lemming get his head removed by a bear trap that makes you not want to do it again (unless you happen to like that sort of thing, of course).

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