I agree, except with PvP everywhere, in all towns, but the guards aren't going to like it, unless they don't see (or you give them enough gold..)
Love the user rating by the way.
Realm switching in MMORPGs. (purely hypothetical)
I think someone should do something for that 1337 rating... It can't seriously go on for long...
As for the open PvP with guards watching, I have implemented something, which goes along with the dialogue and rating system in my text-based ORPG, so tell me what you think...
The dialogue lines only show depending on how you are rated. You are rated along four meters, which are "Good", "bad", "murder" and "beasts killed". A murder is a PvP kill, when you have been sighted by another Biped. And the higher you find yourself on the "BAD" ranking, the more likely you are to find yourself looked upon by guards within the cities limits, which means that you are more likely to get another point in your "murder" counter. You still can get away with it if you behave properly for a while, and your "GOOD" rating exceeds your "BAD" one, you'll be forgotten by the police forces. Moreover, it is a system in which you are also rated according to the REST of the players, since you are "informaly" ranked along a dangerosity scale, and if you are NOT in the topmost area, although you DO have a lot of murders on your counter, hten you'll still be safe enough...
Well, it all depends on the kind of people you are playing WITH, in fact...
And the kind of things you do, of course...
As for the open PvP with guards watching, I have implemented something, which goes along with the dialogue and rating system in my text-based ORPG, so tell me what you think...
The dialogue lines only show depending on how you are rated. You are rated along four meters, which are "Good", "bad", "murder" and "beasts killed". A murder is a PvP kill, when you have been sighted by another Biped. And the higher you find yourself on the "BAD" ranking, the more likely you are to find yourself looked upon by guards within the cities limits, which means that you are more likely to get another point in your "murder" counter. You still can get away with it if you behave properly for a while, and your "GOOD" rating exceeds your "BAD" one, you'll be forgotten by the police forces. Moreover, it is a system in which you are also rated according to the REST of the players, since you are "informaly" ranked along a dangerosity scale, and if you are NOT in the topmost area, although you DO have a lot of murders on your counter, hten you'll still be safe enough...
Well, it all depends on the kind of people you are playing WITH, in fact...
And the kind of things you do, of course...
Quote:Original post by GroZZleR
One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be.
Damn you Trammel carebears!
Why? Because of the Realism?
http://www.tgr.com/weblog/archives/000228.html
There should definitly be something like what you mentioned, in a more controlled enviorment (Such as only PvP in special places, not just outside town or something like that, but rather in special areas where PvE and PvP is possible, so that players would know where to go and where not to go, but as you would want it, where every player could kill any other player wherever he wants, it would be completely uncontrollable and would spoil everyones fun of the game), or else any dickhead or as they call them here:
http://mu.ranter.net/theory/pvp.html
Would just keep PvPing and it wouldn't be fun for anyone else who wants to play legitly against Monsters and not have to deal with other characters (As in PvP).
Just provided 2 good links that would allow you to better understand why games should not have a no-care system where everything is possible everywhere. If the world would have been a nicer place, people would not have needed any restrictions, for anything, not just games...
There are other reasons besides server load that this doesnt work.
Look at EQ1. They have both types of servers and allow character moves in both directions...but there are equipment and gold issues when doing so.
Shadowbane kept promising that this would be possible...from any server to any server...and we had high hopes of doing a full server raid on another server...but it never materialized.
I find this to be just another whinge for people who want whatever they want whenever they want it. Its this kind of stuff that leads to complaints like "clerics have a full heal..paladins should too!" kind of thing.
There are reasons for and against what the op is asking for I suppose.
Just my 2 bottlecaps.
Look at EQ1. They have both types of servers and allow character moves in both directions...but there are equipment and gold issues when doing so.
Shadowbane kept promising that this would be possible...from any server to any server...and we had high hopes of doing a full server raid on another server...but it never materialized.
I find this to be just another whinge for people who want whatever they want whenever they want it. Its this kind of stuff that leads to complaints like "clerics have a full heal..paladins should too!" kind of thing.
There are reasons for and against what the op is asking for I suppose.
Just my 2 bottlecaps.
Quote:Original post by XVampireXQuote:Original post by GroZZleR
One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be.
Damn you Trammel carebears!
Why? Because of the Realism?
No. The fact I enjoy challenging, engaging, exciting games.
Today's MMOs are a lot like the recess playground, except the principal is standing beside you for the whole time.
The following MMO "features" are lame: Consented PvP, level treadmills, private chat channels, lack of exploring, exclusive looting, and keeping your items when you die.
After ten minutes of combat I've got a dragon near death. Someone runs up and steals my kill. He gets the loot because he threw the last blow (I can't even try to grab some stuff because of "exclusive looting") - despite being in the middle of a dragon's lair far away from the prying eyes of the law, I can't do anything to get my loot back from him despite it being rightfully mine. Lame.
I'm hunting in Zone B because Zone A is too easy now. I'm level thirty now - maybe one day I'll be a level eighty and get to... kill more retarded AI monsters. Lame.
Someone is standing right beside you, plotting how he's going to steal your kill with his friend. You can't hear a single thing they're saying because they're on a "group chat line". Lame.
I want to explore the map and get in over my head, just for fun. Every hour I spend exploring the map I lose out on the level treadmill. This puts me further behind my peers. I have no choice but to level to stay competitive. Lame.
I was just killed by another player while resting. I don't lose any of my items and they're flagged a criminal. Lame.
I was just killed by another player while resting but now I'm flagged as a criminal. I lose all of my items because I'm flagged. Lame.
I'm inside of your guild's castle, badmouthing your mother, guild, guild leader, guild name, heritage, race, creed and code. You can't do anything about it because I'm in a guild and I'm refusing your duel requests. Lame.
I could go on and on but I think that's enough.
There's no challenge, no excitement, no fun in today's MMOs.
Step 1: Log on.
Step 2: Ask: "What zone do I hunt in at level X?"
Step 3: Find the zone. Hit "Next Target" button, hit "Attack" button and wait.
Step 4: Repeat Step 3 until next level.
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 filling X in for your new level.
There's no fear of death. You enter the scariest of Dragon's Lairs without hesitation because PKing doesn't exist and you don't lose your items when you die.
No risk. No reward. Boring game.
Quote:Original post by GroZZleR
One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be.
Damn you Trammel carebears!
Did I forget to mention that facet debates on most forums can get very heated? [grin]
Quote:Original post by GroZZleRToday's MMOs are a lot like the recess playground, except the principal is standing beside you for the whole time.
The following MMO "features" are lame: Consented PvP, level treadmills, private chat channels, lack of exploring, exclusive looting, and keeping your items when you die.
After ten minutes of combat I've got a dragon near death. Someone runs up and steals my kill. He gets the loot because he threw the last blow (I can't even try to grab some stuff because of "exclusive looting") - despite being in the middle of a dragon's lair far away from the prying eyes of the law, I can't do anything to get my loot back from him despite it being rightfully mine. Lame.
I'm hunting in Zone B because Zone A is too easy now. I'm level thirty now - maybe one day I'll be a level eighty and get to... kill more retarded AI monsters. Lame.
Someone is standing right beside you, plotting how he's going to steal your kill with his friend. You can't hear a single thing they're saying because they're on a "group chat line". Lame.
I want to explore the map and get in over my head, just for fun. Every hour I spend exploring the map I lose out on the level treadmill. This puts me further behind my peers. I have no choice but to level to stay competitive. Lame.
I was just killed by another player while resting. I don't lose any of my items and they're flagged a criminal. Lame.
I was just killed by another player while resting but now I'm flagged as a criminal. I lose all of my items because I'm flagged. Lame.
I'm inside of your guild's castle, badmouthing your mother, guild, guild leader, guild name, heritage, race, creed and code. You can't do anything about it because I'm in a guild and I'm refusing your duel requests. Lame.
I could go on and on but I think that's enough.
There's no challenge, no excitement, no fun in today's MMOs.
Step 1: Log on.
Step 2: Ask: "What zone do I hunt in at level X?"
Step 3: Find the zone. Hit "Next Target" button, hit "Attack" button and wait.
Step 4: Repeat Step 3 until next level.
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 filling X in for your new level.
There's no fear of death. You enter the scariest of Dragon's Lairs without hesitation because PKing doesn't exist and you don't lose your items when you die.
No risk. No reward. Boring game.
GroZZleR makes some great points for PvP without consent and against punishment. Myself or others could argue the problems of unchecked PvP, but that isn’t needed. (This isn’t meant as disrespectful. Just that I see both sides and believe that both have valid points, also it wouldn’t help this discussion).
I think that PvP is really more a matter of design (or maybe lack of design [wink]).
MMOGs struggle with unique problems, which I don’t think that I could do justice to all of them. Designing Virtual Worlds by Richard Bartle is a really great place (IMHO) to read about them from both points of view (I know personally that he changed my perception of perma death & gave me a lot to think about).
In the end I would suggest that a hard look needs to taken reasons that PvP is "needed" in a game. And when all is said & done, games are meant to be fun for the player.
*Edited for broken link*
[Edited by - Lost on August 24, 2005 10:08:17 PM]
Shadowbane originally started out with the idea that would have made it really good, but unfortunately they didn't ever conqure the technical issues involved.
It went where every server would be "different" one might be an ice world, another a fire world, one a desert, another one a giant forest. The game had no real content so creating a world was a pretty simple process. Players could gain certain sub-jobs that would allow them to use gates into the other servers. Other players could then pay those players to transport them.
The game didn't work that way, they started the game out with a large amount of identical worlds and only later started putting in unique worlds.
But the original idea would have made for one gigantic MMO.
It went where every server would be "different" one might be an ice world, another a fire world, one a desert, another one a giant forest. The game had no real content so creating a world was a pretty simple process. Players could gain certain sub-jobs that would allow them to use gates into the other servers. Other players could then pay those players to transport them.
The game didn't work that way, they started the game out with a large amount of identical worlds and only later started putting in unique worlds.
But the original idea would have made for one gigantic MMO.
Some of my fondest MMO memories come from SB...and I started in the second round of SB beta (4 years before release)....and had been playing MMOs years before that. (Not showing off just explaining how important SB was to me).
I really wish that it had been the game in actuality that it was in theory.
The realm switching could have been truly innovative...and add something to gameplay...but alas...only on the drawing board.
I really wish that it had been the game in actuality that it was in theory.
The realm switching could have been truly innovative...and add something to gameplay...but alas...only on the drawing board.
Quote:Original post by GroZZleR
One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be.
Damn you Trammel carebears!
Normally Id agree with you. There are good reasons to have unrestricted PvP, but with it being completely unrestricted, theres no reason that the person wanting PvP to get back at kill stealers all of a sudden gets bored and decides to gank some level 5 pup. There is nothing more frustrating in the gaming universe than getting ganked after spending a couple of hours resource collecting with that brand new chain mail it took you an arm and 2 legs to buy, and not being able to do anything about it.
While I understand the needs of resource collectors, I also understand the fun factor involved in full-on PvP. Im currently working on a solution for this with my 2D ORPG. Some ideas involve giving PKs a bounty that increases each time they kill someone more than 5 levels below them. After doing that enough, they become targets themselves. Others involve the ganked players going to Heaven after dying, and their God granting them some special power or invulnerability so they have a chance at revenge. If worse comes to worse, I may just make it so that the towns AND the roads are PvP free. Im not positive about that one though. Making it hard to get from town to town allows for lots of escort quests that will help my game along. Ill have to wait until a beta is released to see. ;)
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