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Lucidquiet

[java] Language IDE combination

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For discussion: Should a source code editor, IDE, attempt to support multiple languages? And ancillary functionality? Is there a "need" for an IDE to support pluggable text editors? Does an integrated development environment help or hinder the development of important tools such as profilers, debuggers, refactorring tools, because the design of these tools must "also" support plugging into several different types of IDEs. How many languages are typically used on a single project -- some XML-Derivative, a Scripting Language, and the Core Language? 3? Why shouldn't the tools of the programmer remain that, tools, each useable seperately? Something that has been pesterring me for a while, L-

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Windows systems are the target of most games, so switching isn't exactly an option. Though development in the unix environment should be portable, its not likely. This is more of a design/philosophy of IDE/Languages. But you're right -- why should anyone embrace Eclipse, or NetBeans when there is Emacs?

L-

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Original post by Lucidquiet
But you're right -- why should anyone embrace Eclipse, or NetBeans when there is Emacs?

Because Emacs sucks.

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Original post by Lucidquiet
Why shouldn't the tools of the programmer remain that, tools, each useable seperately?

They once were. But there's this thing called evolution people tend to like. ;)

I understand your concern (i've seen your other posts), but if an IDE is well implemented (fast and stable), the more features it has, the better it is for the user. Note that the user doesn't have to use all the IDE's features - he may freely use others. But most people prefer having a complete IDE than having to install several tools seperately, that may not even work that well together.

To sum it all up, I like having a complete IDE with built-in tools and have the choice of using other 3rd party tools if I dislike the ones provided by the IDE.

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Original post by Arild Fines
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Original post by Lucidquiet
But you're right -- why should anyone embrace Eclipse, or NetBeans when there is Emacs?

Because Emacs sucks.


Haha -- I totally agree. Don't misunderstand me -- I'm not advocating Emacs, and Linux. I'm just not fond of Eclipse, and NetBeans (they are just way to slow for my taste). And not every computer I have to use has a Gig of memory -- why should I need that much memory just to edit a text file, and then run the compiler?

L-

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I'm using a 1 GB machine and it's still too damn slow. I guess 1 GB must be the minimal hardware requirements to run the thing. The recommended hardware must be... hmm... I wouldn't recommend any computer to run Netbeans on. [lol]

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Original post by Blew
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Original post by Lucidquiet
Why shouldn't the tools of the programmer remain that, tools, each useable seperately?

They once were. But there's this thing called evolution people tend to like. ;)


~;) Alright, but how is NetBeans or Eclipse "evolution"? I'm not following this. I admit, using and invoking command line scripts or creating some odd looking one liner to invoke those previously mentioned tools is borderring on insanity. Especially if each tool has some kind of strange cmd-line interface language.

I think part of my gripe is that NetBeans and Eclipse are both supposedly the top of the line in Java Applications, and I have in the past felt that Java would be good for making things like Source Editors, but their performance, isn't exactly inspiring. (Does anyone wonder why newbies always ask if Java is slow?)

L-

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Original post by Lucidquiet
And not every computer I have to use has a Gig of memory -- why should I need that much memory just to edit a text file, and then run the compiler?

You don't need that much memory to edit a text file and run the compiler. Myself, I'm a pretty big fan of Visual Studio .NET, have been using it since beta 2 of VS 2002 back in the summer of 2001. I like it for the project management capabilities, the debugger, the intellisense and (in VS2005) the refactoring capabilities.

However, if I do something which only requires a single source file, I fire up something like SciTE (or gvim if I'm on unix) and drive the compiler from the command line. This works pretty well, but it doesn't scale to large projects with several build targets, hundreds of files etc. That's where IDEs like VS.NET and Eclipse shine.

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That's strange because the runtime footprint of Eclipse which I have open here seems to be 200MB, not a gig. What's more it would appear to be super fast at doing most stuff... certainly a lot bloody faster than all that wanking around with the command line.

BTW eclipse lovers using Java 5.0, try this commandline out to launch it and rejoice:

C:\eclipse\eclipse.exe -server -XX:CompileThreshold=100 -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX:+UseParNewGC -Xincgc -Xms64m -Xmx128m -XX:JavaPriority10_To_OSPriority=10 -XX:JavaPriority9_To_OSPriority=9

Takes quite a while to start up but once it's open it runs as fast as you need. Those -XX:JavaPriority10_To_OSPriority flags are in there to stop Java 5.0 buggering around with time critical threads when it shouldn't do (naughty Sun).

Cas :)

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