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2DExtremeOwner

Need Help On Picking The Right Language

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I am majorly thinking about ease of use and development time FOR Game Programming...Can someone give me a few examples or info about this languages: Well C++ is basicly out of the window lol (for ease of use and development time since that is the one all the other languages are fighting againts) 1-Java 2-Delphi 3-Visual Basic (Any Version) 4-Python 5-C# How does this languages help on making 2D and 3D games faster? IF im missing some that you think might be good please tell me. Thanx alot [Edited by - 2DExtremeOwner on August 31, 2005 7:33:05 AM]

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Any of those would do the job for you (Apart from olf versions of Visual Basic, and I wouldn't even recommend .Net, myself). The only language in that list I've not had any experience with as yet is Delphi, but I've heard a lot of good things about it.

Basically, try them all out; most of the languages on that list have implementations available at no cost, so you'll have nothing to lose. If you've never programmed before then I'd recommend Python, and if you have a little experience then maybe Java or C# might be wise, but ultimately just use the one that 'feels' right.

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The speed doens't really depend on the language that you pick.

It has everything to do with how you program. The methods, how you solve the tasks you have to do.

And, if you're at the stage of asking what language to learn, you won't have to worry about speed for a loooong time. For the next 3-6 months, you'll be learning how to program (think like a programmer to solve problems).

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Try FreeBASIC

Http://Freebasic.net

Most C libs(OpenGL, DX, SDL, etc) are supported.

Here's a 2d game I'm developing:

http://rel.betterwebber.com/index.php?action=contents&item=Space+Impakto

An OpenGL demo (Using SDL for windowing so you may need to DL sdl)

http://rel.betterwebber.com/junk.php?id=47

Enjoy!

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Yeah but i also remember reading some article as how Java saves 30% of time to make the samething as C++.So i was wondering if any of the other have some articles on cutting development time and what have been some of your experiences.

Speed of how a program runs is not my concern but the speed it takes to make it.

Keep replying XD and thanx alot

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Speed of development is pretty much proportional to the "level" of the language (high or low). It goes pretty much like this:

:Binary (Low)
:Assembly
:C
:C++
:Java ad C#
:Python (High)

I don't know about the other languages you listed but Python is very high level. This means you have to deal less with things like memory and implementation details. Meaning you can start programming your games right away. Python also comes with a huge standard library and add-on libs.

So I reccommend Python.

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*Ahem* You really shouldn't be worrying about this. Those cuts in development time you refer to are for experienced developers in the language, which you are not.

You should be picking something which is easy and intuitive to learn and which won't teach bad habits. Python meets this requirement, and as an added bonus will let you make simpler sort of games quite soon comparitively to other languages.

Once you've learned to program well with one language you will then very easily be able to pick up most others.

I recommend you learn Python and then move on to C# when Python becomes limiting to you.


Oh, and stay away from BASIC variants - they're great for rapid application development, but they aren't really suited for games. You can make games with them, but they're too prone to teaching bad habits.


If you really want to develop fast, you could look into appropriate authoring tools for the type of game you want to make, you can't really get faster and more user-friendly development than with those things, and if they suit your design you can potentially make some very good games with them.

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I wrote my game X-hex in Visual Basic 6.0 Enterprise Edition.

link to the game and screenshots (it's free for download):

http://codemonger.com/Default.asp?Page=Projects

So assuming people may thing VB worst language to write games in, I would make the argument that really it all depends on the power of the programmer. Use a language you feel comfortable enough to program in, and that you can get the job done in time, which is IMHO a lot more satisfying.

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Quote:
Original post by Codemonger
So assuming people may thing VB worst language to write games in, I would make the argument that really it all depends on the power of the programmer. Use a language you feel comfortable enough to program in, and that you can get the job done in time, which is IMHO a lot more satisfying.


I'm assuming thats (at least in part) in response to my statement that BASIC variants are to be avoided. Just to qualify that a bit, I actually did a lot of my own learning in VB6, and yes, you can make some very good games, and even do a lot of things that people generally consider impossible (Yes, VB6 can use pointers [wink]).

If you're comfortable using such a language and it suits your needs, then for sure, go right ahead and use it. I'd never recommend such a language to a beginner however, as it was simply never intended to be used for games, and it's far to easy to get into bad habits with them.

So for sure - use any language you're comfortable with, but generally it's not the best idea to learn programming using a BASIC variant if you want to make games.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
despite contrary believes, you can do about the same things you do in C with languages such as blitzmax, which is compiled, uses behind the scenes both openGL and direct x , has a neat and simple object oriented structure and handles dynamic memory management for you with lists. And the learning curve is much, much faster, since it's geared for games.

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I'd go with Python or C#. Both are nice and easy to work with (although I only have limited experience with Python), and definitely powerful enough to make games.

As for VB (or other Basic flavors), yes, of course you can make (good) games with them, no one ever argued with that. But there's always the "bad habits" thing, (and yeah, one example is the goto-madness/spaghetti code)), and honestly, what does BASIC languages offer that other languages can't match? It used to be a simple and easy language that let you throw programs out quickly and easily.
Today, that feat is matched by most of the languages you mentioned, so why even bother with BASIC languages?

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Quote:
Original post by Ranma13
By the way, I see a lot of mention of bad programming habits, but would someone be willing to name what some of them are?


Mostly the goto/label structure. Also basic programs rarely use proper indentation.

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Quote:
Original post by Ranma13
By the way, I see a lot of mention of bad programming habits, but would someone be willing to name what some of them are?


- Goto.
- Poor OOP support (this has got a lot better in newer variants).
- Rarely encourage good program structure.
- Poor (relatively) runtime performance often leads to an obsession with inappropriate optimisation, resulting in fast but completely unreadable code.

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Quote:
Original post by Simian Man
Quote:
Original post by Ranma13
By the way, I see a lot of mention of bad programming habits, but would someone be willing to name what some of them are?


Mostly the goto/label structure. Also basic programs rarely use proper indentation.


BASIC does not use goto and label structures anymore than C does, this is one of the most distorted things I have ever heard in a long time about BASIC. Indentation has nothing to do with the language but the PROGRAMMER, and your forgetting that readability is one of the KEY features of a BASIC language. The position that BASIC teaches bad habits or BASIC is too simplistic to program in, is just an elitist view IMHO and nothing more. Most BASIC's have their shortcomings, but this is no different than any other language.

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Quote:
Original post by Kazgoroth
Quote:
Original post by Ranma13
By the way, I see a lot of mention of bad programming habits, but would someone be willing to name what some of them are?


- Goto.
- Poor OOP support (this has got a lot better in newer variants).
- Rarely encourage good program structure.
- Poor (relatively) runtime performance often leads to an obsession with inappropriate optimisation, resulting in fast but completely unreadable code.


- Goto : what I said above ^

- Poor OOP support - well BASIC was never really intended to be an OOP programming language( exception of .net of course), so much for that argument (this could be applied to any language that doesn't support OOP, and there are a lot of them). VB for instance has excellent support for creating active X controls and the classes support properties (getters and setters).

- Rarely encourage good program structure ?? not sure I understand this, probably a bad argument if you are thingking OOP, otherwise the paradigm is not that much different than say C.

- Poor (relatively) runtime performance: this depends on the basic language, most people assume basic has been an interpreted language. Try using something like purebasic, it compiles to FASM, and is very fast, in fact inline assembly is supported and most of the users use assembly within their programs. If you are talking about VB, well their are optimizations like compiling to native code and removing bound checking on arrays, but yes it is slower than c/c++ in general.

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