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Multiplayer fighting games

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Hi We currently are entering the age of 3G technology which will be full fledge in the coming months. Do you think this medium is good enough to make a multiplayer fighting game ? As far as my knowledge goes, fighting games require the highest ping rates and require the lowest latency rates. So will this work on such a medium ? Do you'll game designers think that such a task can be accomplished? Al so if it does not work, then what knid of design ideas you'll can think of putting in a fighting game (e.g. Mortal Combat style). Thanks in advance.

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I can't imagine why it's okay to create multiplayer first person shooters if it's not okay to create fighting games. They both require the same response time. Shooters probably require slightly more. There are plenty of them out there, too. If you're looking for reasons that not many online PC fighting games exist, it's the same reasons that very few single player PC fighting games exist.

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What I meant was on 3G technology and not PC gaming. What do you think about making a multiplayer fighting game on such a network ? Do you think it will provide the necessary ping rates. ?

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I know that FPS multiplayer games exists out there. Also I know on what mediums they run : over the internet, on LAN, on 3G, etc. What I'm curious about is how fighting games are different in implementation from FPS multiplayer games on 3G networks. I also agree to the fact that if there are FPS games already implemented on 3G technology, then fighting games can also be implemented. The only point I want to clarify is , that technically is it totally feasable to create such a fighting game on this medium.

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Ahh, I see, didn't Mortal Kombat die with the Sega Genesis? Do people still play mindless, overly-bloody fighting games? I thought the weapon of choice was large projectile weapons rather than hands and feet anymore? A new Bushido Blade would be cool though, even though I don't own a console and refuse to purchase another one.

Vopisk

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Vopisk
Ahh, I see, didn't Mortal Kombat die with the Sega Genesis? Do people still play mindless, overly-bloody fighting games? I thought the weapon of choice was large projectile weapons rather than hands and feet anymore? A new Bushido Blade would be cool though, even though I don't own a console and refuse to purchase another one.

Vopisk


That was an extremely awesome game. Could've used some polishing, but hey, early PS1, you take what you can get! Playing others over the internet would be pretty neat...

Uhh, that said, I think the reason you don't see many over-internet fighting games is that they're typically between two people. FPSes can be filled with 16+ players, fighter's can not. It's just not as exciting. You can usually get a buddy to play a fighting game with you; it's a lot more difficult to get 15 buddies over to play an FPS...

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Vopisk
Ahh, I see, didn't Mortal Kombat die with the Sega Genesis? Do people still play mindless, overly-bloody fighting games? I thought the weapon of choice was large projectile weapons rather than hands and feet anymore? A new Bushido Blade would be cool though, even though I don't own a console and refuse to purchase another one.

Vopisk


That was an extremely awesome game. Could've used some polishing, but hey, early PS1, you take what you can get! Playing others over the internet would be pretty neat...

Uhh, that said, I think the reason you don't see many over-internet fighting games is that they're typically between two people. FPSes can be filled with 16+ players, fighter's can not. It's just not as exciting. You can usually get a buddy to play a fighting game with you; it's a lot more difficult to get 15 buddies over to play an FPS...


Well, why couldn't Bushido Blade be played MMO? Think of Shogun: Total War series of games, only on a player-avatar basis. It wouldn't be turn based, but neither were the "battle" sequences in Shogun. I think it would be awesome to have that fly-over camera angle looking down on a battlefield full of samurai and whatnot chopping each other to pieces. I think it would have to be a "king of the hill"/"Deathmatch" type game rather than respawning after X amount of time, but it would be awesome and I would pay money for it, but I would probably want it for the PC one way or another, since I've sworn off consoles as I said above.

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A game like Bushido Blade could be played MMO (It'd be weird and kind of not-Bushido like, but...), true - I guess you could change what player you were oriented to with a lock button or something. Hectic it would be. o_o

The kind of fighting game I was thinking of was more like Soul Calibur or Street Fighter - that's the impression I got from OP.

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
A game like Bushido Blade could be played MMO (It'd be weird and kind of not-Bushido like, but...), true - I guess you could change what player you were oriented to with a lock button or something. Hectic it would be. o_o

The kind of fighting game I was thinking of was more like Soul Calibur or Street Fighter - that's the impression I got from OP.


I agree, the original poster did seem to be speaking of a "side-scrolling", PvP fighting games. But in the world of 3-D and high-end graphics, why not make it an in-depth level system where the players have the ability to roam about and take fighting to a whole new level. Throw your enemy through a wall or window and crash out after them to continue the brawl outside in the garden where you can splash through the pond throwing punches and kicks and whatever else you can muster.

I think something like Bushido Blade could be converted to MMO if the game system had the "Bushido Code" in place where one samurai would challenge another. I know from minor research into Japanese history that often times in battles(a la pretty much all ancient history) the "heroes" of each army would be called forward to fight one-on-one.

Games like Star Wars: Jedi Knight Academy have systems in place like this where one can challenge the other or it can be all-out free-for-all kill fests. However, I never liked the idea of laser swords and would prefer to use cold steel to hack my opponents' limbs off. But that's just me, anyway, I think it's an idea worth merit and would love to see someone pull it off.

Vopisk

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Thanks guys for all your replies. I would also like to know whether a one on one fighting game is possible on over the air mobile 3G networks which is already available in a couple of places. Acoording to different forums, people are experiencing 250 ms latency rates. SO is it possible to achieve a good result?

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Quote:
Original post by I_Smell_Tuna
3G refers to the third generation of consoles (PS3, Revolution, XBox 360).


It does?!? I'd suggest that you might be mistaken there, I've never heard of "3g" being used to describe the next-gen consoles, and see no logical reason why it would. I believe in this case the OP is referring to the "third generation" mobile (phone) network. See here.

If the services are up to the level of performance aimed for and are reliable then fighting/action/shooting games will certainly be feasible. I'd suggest however that many mobile devices may not be the best suited to controlling such a game, which players have typically enjoyed mostly on console or arcade platforms which provide joysticks, joypads, etc.

It's questionable however if performance will in fact be anywhere near optimal levels most of the time - I'd suggest that latency will probably be a killer until they work the kinks out of the system and greatly improve coverage.

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Quake is coming on to mobile and it is having multiplayer support on 3G networks. Also there are a lot more other FPS games that have mutiplayer support on 3G. It is soon hitting the market, so I guess it is feasable in terms of technology. What I'm not convinced on is whether a fighting game can be made into a one-on-one multiplayer online game on 3G. Does a fighting game require higher ping rates than FPS or is it actually the same?

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Quake has a mobile multiplare version of its popular game. It also has the game running on GPRS and EVDO networks. You can read about it on this link

http://www.gamespot.com/mobile/action/quakemobile/preview_6125516.html

So do you'll think a fighting game is still possible on this medium ?

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I think by 3G he meant the new gameing platforms coming out, and since its not truley the third generation either.

Nintendo is already on there 5th

Nintendo Entertainment System
Super Nintendo Entertainment System/Super Famicon
Nintendo 64
Nintendo Gamecube
Nintendo Revolution

on the handheld scale there on there 5th as well.

Gameboy
Gameboy Color
Virtual Boy
Gameboy Advance
Gameboy DS



So I beleive to dub this the 3G is an improper term....unless your talking soley about Playstation, which IS in fact in its third generation.............excluding the biggest mistake in game console history made by Nintendo (You all remember, Sony affiliating with Nintendo to make the "Super Nintendo CD" add on to the Super nintendo, wasnt for that Sony wouldnt even ever have there playstation)



Anywho, I am not trying to ridicule anyone here.
I am just pointing out an error....forgive me for interupting the topic.


Here is my true post.....................................






Well I think that fighting games would be actually a little less then FPS.
For one, there are 16+ players in FPS, while fighting is a mere 2.
Although there are more subtle details in fighting games like animations for effects...

However you put it, it dosnt add up to that much of a number.
A speed of a constant 30-50k can handle this no problem.

After all, all the RAW data is on the CD.
All you have to download is the movements of the opponent (Hits, Position, etc.) His health meter, and some other small data like "Get him Rocky!"

The reason there is a lack in these games is because not as many people are into fighting games, due to the fact that people like FPS more.
And the reason people like FPS more over then Fighting Games is because of the war in Iraq. (thats my theory at least....and it makes sence)

That my $0.02

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actually it was my fault on using short form descriptions. What i actually meant was Third Generation mobile Network technologies. So the name 3G mobile networks.

XisZ post was interesting to point out on the differences between an FPS and fighting game mulitplayer specifications. If his case is true, then a fighting multiplayer game should be possible on the existing 3G mobile networks.

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You'll need roughly the same ping response for most fightings games compared to FPS games.

Just think of it this way:
- If a player in an FPS reacts to something and the timing is slightly off, they'll be annoyed. In this case, they've probably just missed the target they were shooting at.
- If a player in a fighting game reacts to something and the timing is slightly off, they'll be annoyed. In this case, they've probably just messed up blocking a strike.

Total number of players isn't really that important, it's the performance for any 1 given player. If latency makes it difficult to correctly react to an opponents moves, and the game requires that you do so, it'll be a problem.

Just to be clear to everyone:
We're talking about mobile phones here people, not next-gen consoles. [wink]

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I thing it becomes frustrating if a strike or a block is missed in a fighting game and it wont be accvepted by the end user. So the ping rates of the network service have to be good enough not to miss any of the action. Also I agrre with Kazgoroth that there will be design issues if there are greater latency issues.

On the other side, do you'll think if there is any other component which we can think of putting in a fighting game which can be used in suchan environment. Like I was thinking if it is possible to train a character using neural networks, and then you pass its learning to the oponents device, and let the oponent fight with my custom made character. The issue in this case would be, would the player want to have such an experiece? Is training a character and letting it be played by other people is actually fun ?

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