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How easy is the torque engine???

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Okay, some of you are going to think this is the dumbest question in the world...But I am so curious about Garage Games Torque Engine. My C coding is a pretty rusty, so what I was hoping was that the torque engine wouldn't require much C programming at all. Is this true? How hard is the toruqe game engine to use? Any help/opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! - Philippe

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Well maybe not a stupid question in my oppinion, but a hard one ;)

Torque, as game engine is complex no doubt there, BUT it's not just complex, the scriptlanguage and editors are both powerfull and somewhat intuitive.

The documentation is not that briliant though, and I have found it hart to feel complete control, and the best places to get updated is the community forums, which may not come as a surprise. often pour documentation lead to a good community, where users are restricted to the help others can offer.

I would say that torque (TGE) is a great tool, and since you get the code with the engine you CAN enable any features you need, but it don't always come easy.

But the script language and editors are often enough to get you a long way.

I hope my input have helped some at least it's hard to tell someone you don't know how hard a particular tool is to learn ;)

well I myself are new to Torque and I guess there are tons of people knowing more on the subject.

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Well, I don't consider myself to have a good knowledge of C++. I am just intermediate - I know the basics, maybe some more advanced stuff but I still have a lot to learn. Anyway, currently I am working with Torque Shader Engine and all I can say is ... that hurts. ;)

It's the most complicated code I've ever worked with! Even though you have nice scripts and editors, there are still many situations where you can't go on without changing the engine's code.

You can spend months learning it. Anyway, if you can give it so much time, it's probably worth it. Torque is one of the greatest resources to learn real engine architecture!

You might be interested in Torque Game Engine (TGE) since it is a lot easier to get on with. It's 100% done, there are tons of good resources about it, there is great garagegames community and it uses OpenGL as a graphics API so there is a chance you are familiar with it.

If you thought about TSE, I must admit that it is still lacking many features since it's in a middle of development.

To put it briefly - I wouldn't recommend it to a person who has just started the journey with programming (not only because it's a commercial engine). But, if you feel that your C++ skills are pretty solid, GO FOR IT! :D

Hope it helps!

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Yeah, that is what I was mainly talking about, the Torque Game Engine....Not the shader engine.I'm just so impressed by it, especially after I played Tribes.

-Philippe

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i've used it thru a course i have done, and i agree it is a good engine. but i found that unless you really wanted to get your hands dirty and change the engine code, anything created with it still had the same look and feel.

the scripting language is all you need to learn if you are just wanting to make a game but to make something to make ppl not think it's a mod for tribes would take alot more work, but alot leass than having to wirte your own engine ;)

this is just my 2 cents, My classmates and I ended up using Renderware for our class project "Goliath" and we were all happy with the outcome.

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Hello,

Just by curiosity how could you get the Renderware engine, I ask this because as far as I know it is really expensive, or dose it have a learning edition?

About torque I have never used but I could recommend the Cipher engine, it is a really good and powerfull engine with a structure REALLY similar to Quake III engine, maybe you could take a look at it (www.cipherengine.com)

Regards,
Oscar

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We were lucky, the course paid for the licence. but now i hear that EA are giving it to schools for free or REALLY cheap for educational purposes.

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Cool, thats great!, I have used in the past (when licensee cost about $1000),and is a really cool grpahics engine.

By the way congratulations for your class project "Goliath", it looks really cool!.

Regards,
Oscar

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Torque is very powerful and really fairly easy to use if you work at it. Best way to get a grasp on it is to pick up the 3D Game Programming All-in-One by Kenneth Finney and the followup Advanced 3D Game Programming All-in-One which just came out last week.

Both books cover nearly every aspect of making a game with Torque, using scripting only since the book does not include licensed source code, but you can get a good feel for the engine before becoming a licensee that way.

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well thats some great input I think :) most of the stuff I agree with without blinking. great engine for little money, but it's not perfect.

but the reason I returned with an answer was another.

Quote:

Just by curiosity how could you get the Renderware engine, I ask this because as far as I know it is really expensive, or dose it have a learning edition?


I'm not sure but I think that Renderware have some "academic agreement" which mean that some "selected" schools get both academic license and high support, my school where I studied at tried to get an renderware academic licence and the offer looked really good, but I think they don't have resources to give full support to just throw licenses at universities.

Quote:

About torque I have never used but I could recommend the Cipher engine, it is a really good and powerfull engine with a structure REALLY similar to Quake III engine, maybe you could take a look at it (www.cipherengine.com)


Sounds great, I will surely take a look at it, further I don't know how they are as a game engine, but "Ogre3D" Is a engine I loved to work with (though you will have to work near the code, and you have to know your way in c++), and "OpenScenegraph" is an engine I personally haven't worked with but it could be of interest maybe, if you are new to this I though it could be of interest to look at some free engines. but as said I think it will be more code in those.

!Though! those Free alternatives are not as all-round as torque (or as cipher maybe?) both of the alternatives I gave here are so called rendering engines and not full game engines


And by the way @NovaCaine: WOW! It's looking really great!

[Edited by - Qrikko on September 8, 2005 3:35:08 PM]

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If you are not a professional and skilled programmer ( as you wrote ) you should consider very seriously open source alternatives instead of expensive license and their expensive adds on. So you understand what a library is without paying $$$ for that!

Ogre3D
ClanLib

They are both open source and cross platform promising libraries.

However I'm sure that every 'engine' requires a very good and robust C++ knowledge; if you are searching for something 'simpler' ( relative ) you can write a mod (Quake3, UT2004,...)

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Its correct to say that Torque doesn't require much C++ programming to make games. You can do a little C++ programming, a lot if you wish, or none at all, and still make a game. Garage Games hosts lot of resources with script and C++ code at their website. Most were made by ordinary users, and come with instructions.

Even though it doesn't force you to code in C++, Torque isn't really an "easy" engine. Its really an intermediate to advanced level engine.

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I think the problem many people have with torque relates to its maturity. LOTS of things people want TGE to do are already built in. There's a particular way of doing That Thing (whatever it might be). Learning what The Way is for all the little features you want to have takes a lot of time.

Further, TGE (Torque Game Engine) is flexible enought that there are several "not quite right" approaches to solve any given problem.

I can easily see someone stumbling upon a sub-optimal technique for whipping up Feature X, Y, or Z, wrestling with it for a while, and getting frustrated. Lord knows I have. And that's what the community is for. There's an IRC channel and a whole pile of forums, chock full of helpful people happy to help you with any problem you might run into. Several of those helpful people include the GG employees who've been working on TGE since "Star Seige" started development (AKA: For A Long Time). THEY know The Right Way, and are happy to share it with you.

They've been threatening to release the Torque Developer Network shortly (several weeks, give or take). I understand that it will be a Wiki, filled to overflowing with reference, howtos, and tutorials. As a wiki, it will be a constantly-growing tool for Truth, Justice, and Kickass Games. I'm stoked.

I'm also biased (in case you hadn't caught on). I haven't used Ogre or ClanLib, or much of anything other than the little engine I rolled for a class project (a toy directX game, with OpenAL... kinda Robotron in Space), and Torque. And I LIKE Torque.

One big plus with Torque that's hard to match for most of these other render libs/engines: REAL PUBLISHED GAMES. I don't know of any Ogre/clanLib/etc games that have been published for example. Feel free to correct me if that's not the case, I'd like to know.


The Torque Shader Engine (which requires that you own TGE to purchase) is still in its "Early Adopter" phase. In other words, its not ready for prime time, and they know it. TSE is the "pixel/vertex shader" version of TGE, with a few more bells and wistles thrown in for good measure (a new-n-sexy terrain system for example).

Torque 2D is also in an "Early Adopter" phase. Unlike TSE however, there's already a commercial (indie) game released using it. "Gold Fever", a puzzle game. http://www.garagegames.com/news/8206.

All three engines are in active development. TGE 1.4 RC2 was made available just recently, and many brave developers are enthusiastically beating on it even as I type. Bugs are being exposed to the light and stomped into goo. It's main advantages are a cleaner code-base, improved tools, unicode support, Tons O Bugfixes, and so on. You can read all about it here: http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/8863/8670 (and how the heck do you tag something as a link around here? I can't find a 'here's how' doc anywhere on the 'post a reply' page)

You can also develop your game, sans code, for free. You can do quite a bit with the stock engine, just in script. The not-so-well-named "3d Game Programming All In One" by Ken Finney (he's not happy with the name either, but the publisher insisted) gives an excellent base on which to build, without a drop of C++. Come publish time, you slap down your $100 (not an issue if you've got a publisher), or $450 for the commercial license, and you're off to fame, fortune, glory, and all that good stuff (or obscurity and starvation, whichever :P )

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off topic:

thx Qrikko and ogracian, unfortunatly thats as far as the game is going to get( unless you have a few thousand $$ you wish to invest ;) :D

on topic:

i think it all comes down to what your really wanting to do with your game, is it just a side project/hobby? are you planning on making money off it?

it is definatly a good engine, most of the hard work is done for you and you can creating a game using purly the scripting. And the community is definatly great, loads of tutorials and such.

but if your wanting to learn more of what goes under the hood( rendering, physics etc ) it's probably not your best option imho.

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