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XVampireX

Game Engine, with C#?

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Hi, I've been posting here mostly in the Game Design forums for a while, and had some problems with this board system (Uhm, it's annoying...). Anyways, A Team and I are going to start work on a Game Engine soon and I have a few questions regarding it: 1) Is it worth creating a game engine using C# ? I know C# allows for rapid development and very easy to handle and in my eyes, a very clean code can be created (Written), but I also know that C# also lacks some of the performance that C++ could give. But our team doesn't really know what language to code the engine in, and if it's worth going for C# because of it's performance, even though I did hear that the performance is barely noticeable. One thing though, don't refer me to RealmForge GDK, I know this is being created with C#, however it is not an engine that has been created from ground up but rather an engine which wraps(merges?) around it several different libraries together and creates tools for easiness. I'm just interested in knowing if it's worth creating a Game Engine with C# and/or basing our whole team on C# (Not many teams are doing that nowadays, still). 2) How long would it take to create a game engine if worked on as an indie team (10 or so members), using C# as the language, and putting alot of emphasis on creation of tools for maximum easiness of creation of games later on (Something similar to the Unreal Engine?) ? I've heard only very few people worked on the Reality Engine and they created the engine pretty shortly, even though they were students of some game development college/university. 3) Is it worth creating a Game Engine now, and a Game later which is powered by the Game Engine, or creating the Game first and the Engine later, which does not make much sense to me other than using a different engine (Torque?) to create the game? I'm asking this because we need the maximum efficiency of work, because our plans are to work on a Game Engine and gaining experience enough to be able to create a game (MMORPG, in this case). The leaders (I am not the leader) plan is that we make enough money (Our budget) so that we can then hire more people to work with us and eventually be more than an Indie team and maybe even a fully commercial team. 4) Let's say we are finished with creating the Engine, now we also want to sell it. Now, IF the engine is as good and features the same things as Unreal Engine or even better, are we allowed to sell it for less than what Unreal Engine offers? Can Epic games then sue us even though the engine is completely ours, written from scratch? What is the policy on buying other companies? Why was Reality Engine bought by Epic games? Will we have any trouble with selling the engine, whatsoever? Thanks.

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1) I think it is worth creating an engine in C#, you cant say an exact difference in performance, but from my experience you wont loose many frames per second. Saruman will probably give a good post about this.

2) It is impossible to say, how skilled are you? How much are you going to work? How much are you going to re-invent? etc. If you have some experience developing fairly big projects you should be able to make an estimate. I dont have the experience to say how long it will take, sorry.

3) Do you mean you are considering programming an MMORPG in Torque, then when finished program an engine and last re-program the MMORPG in your own engine, I think that would be a very bad approach.

4) I'm actually not sure how good/expensive the unreal engine is, but I know it is famous and you'ld need some advertising and proof that your engine can compete with the Unreal engine before people would buy it. It's impossible to say if you will have trouble selling the engine, because we dont know how it is going to be in its final form (you'll probably change alot along the way).

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Quote:
Original post by XVampireX
1) Is it worth creating a game engine using C# ? I know C# allows for rapid development and very easy to handle and in my eyes, a very clean code can be created (Written), but I also know that C# also lacks some of the performance that C++ could give. But our team doesn't really know what language to code the engine in, and if it's worth going for C# because of it's performance, even though I did hear that the performance is barely noticeable. One thing though, don't refer me to RealmForge GDK, I know this is being created with C#, however it is not an engine that has been created from ground up but rather an engine which wraps(merges?) around it several different libraries together and creates tools for easiness. I'm just interested in knowing if it's worth creating a Game Engine with C# and/or basing our whole team on C# (Not many teams are doing that nowadays, still).


If you don't plan on reselling your engine, c# will be fine. I only say this because the majority of developers looking for an engine want it in C++ as it's the language they know. If you do want to resell it, then I'm afraid C++ is only real viable choice.

Quote:

2) How long would it take to create a game engine if worked on as an indie team (10 or so members), using C# as the language, and putting alot of emphasis on creation of tools for maximum easiness of creation of games later on (Something similar to the Unreal Engine?) ? I've heard only very few people worked on the Reality Engine and they created the engine pretty shortly, even though they were students of some game development college/university.


It honestly depends what you want to support. Something at the level of quake 2 would be a lot easier than at the level of doom 3. How experienced is your team? What features do you want to support? What features (EXACT features) do you want the toolset to support? Have you ever attempted to write a level editor before (it's VERY hard to prevent it turning it into a bug-ridden piece of crap).

Quote:

3) Is it worth creating a Game Engine now, and a Game later which is powered by the Game Engine, or creating the Game first and the Engine later, which does not make much sense to me other than using a different engine (Torque?) to create the game? I'm asking this because we need the maximum efficiency of work, because our plans are to work on a Game Engine and gaining experience enough to be able to create a game (MMORPG, in this case). The leaders (I am not the leader) plan is that we make enough money (Our budget) so that we can then hire more people to work with us and eventually be more than an Indie team and maybe even a fully commercial team.


You can't have a game without a game engine, and if you want to make an MMORPG with no game programming experience what so ever, then prepared for the backlash. MMORPGs are the hardest games to make - nothing even comes close to it. They also require massive teams to create the content, a huge budget for servers, and a large playerbase to remain profitable.

Quote:

4) Let's say we are finished with creating the Engine, now we also want to sell it. Now, IF the engine is as good and features the same things as Unreal Engine or even better, are we allowed to sell it for less than what Unreal Engine offers? Can Epic games then sue us even though the engine is completely ours, written from scratch? What is the policy on buying other companies? Why was Reality Engine bought by Epic games? Will we have any trouble with selling the engine, whatsoever?


Epic don't "own" any ideas - if you can make an engine that is just as good and sell it for less than go for it (although I hate to say it but I doubt you can). However, Epic have a proven track record of making phenomenal engines, excellent customer support, a huge community who know the engine inside out that make mods for games released with it. Reality Engine was bought because a) it was a genuine threat to the sales of Unreal Engine, b) it had some stuff in it they wanted, c) the project lead was a minor genious who they wanted to hire and d) because they could. You can sell your engine to whoever you like - Epic are just another company competing with you, and the only risk you have of them buying your company is if you sell it to them.

Do yourself a favour - make Pong, Tetris, Asteroids, a simple platform game, a 3d racing game (quite easy if you don't want ultra realism), a 3d action game, a multipler FPS, and then an offline RPG. Even after that, you won't be prepared for an MMORPG, but you'll be a bit closer :).

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