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templewulf

Improving Magic: The Gathering

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templewulf    526
I'm moving to 3D with my CRPG, and as I update the whole system I'm going to base the combat system on Magic: The Gathering. I'm just polling to see what other Magic / RPG players would enjoy / hate the most. Would you prefer the abstract "sides" of M:TG, or the chessboard approach of tactical CRPGs like Final Fantasy Tactics? How should I deal with getting into fights? Magic matches can go on for a while, and I don't want a 30min war to result from a random battle. I also don't want to trivialize battle by making random enemies too easy, because then it's just a chore. What are the pros for M:TG? I like how direct damage spells are fairly uncommon; it encourages more creative uses for magic. What are the cons for M:TG? I'm going to suggest mana-flooding and mana-drought. Color Divisions? I don't like the current color wheel they use. I'm going after the classical elements: Earth, Fire, Air, Water, Void/Ether. I just don't know what the difference between Air and Water should be since Blue covered them both in M:TG. What elements would White and Black land in? What could you use for mana source as an alternative to lands? If lands are your source of power, how do you cast spells when you venture into some unknown territory? Plus, I don't like when magic comes from outside the caster, as in FF7's materia. What are other neat things to do with a system like that? I really like the idea of using magic outside of combat. For instance, cast control magic on whoever and walk around in their body. Any suggestions from developers out there? Even if you don't play M:TG, I'd still love to hear from a fellow RPGer.

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Extrarius    1412
Edit: Actually I see your talking about an RPG, so I don't know what you're talking about. The below is about the CCG. The same goes for an RPG, though - why not radically change the system?

My original post follows:
Why not come up with a completely different system?

For example, a major problem in CCGs is that if you draw the wrong cards, it can take a long time to get started and get some action going.
How can you eliminate that problem? Eliminate the draw.

Instead of having a hand of X cards and a deck you draw from, how about dividing the cards into hands the way you want them, and each turn you can put down the hand you're golding and pick one of the other ones you prepared (but only once each turn).

If you don't want to eliminate the chance of drawing, make it so the hands you've created start shuffled so you don't know which one you'll get when you change (until you've mapped them all out). If you design your hands properly, even with the shuffling you can get started pretty quickly.

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templewulf    526
That's something I'm considering, but my original post was getting too long already.

The idea is that you can prepare any spell that's on hand (the library), but there's a cost in time, and that cost is directly proportional to the size of your library. So, you can't carry around every spell in the world if you want to use them quickly.

As for radically changing them system, I'd like to make some big changes to it, but I wanted to get the community's view on what should be improved.

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Trapper Zoid    1370
Quote:
Original post by templewulfAs for radically changing them system, I'd like to make some big changes to it, but I wanted to get the community's view on what should be improved.


I haven't thought of any great ideas to help you yet, I'm afraid, but I have to point out that you are probably going to have to make big changes to the rules, as Magic the Gathering is still under patent, which is annoying if you wish to develop a card based wizard game. To me that's the biggest con of M:TG.

To be safe, I'd scrap the concept of "lands" completely, but I'm not sure on the best thing to replace them. Sorry I'm not of more help; I'll see what I can think of.


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templewulf    526
Thanks for your suggestion TZ. Just to be clear, though, there will be NO cards in this game. They will be referred to as spells, because I think that kind of metaphor shear hurts immersion.

The legality of it was just one reason I wanted to change away from lands. I'm thinking that you could accumulate mana over turns and save up a couple of turns for big spells. That way, mana generation could be a function of how much XP you put into each element. It's like Quest64, but less awful! [grin]

As long as we're on the topic of legality, how do most companies treat indie developers? Considering it's going to be a freeware and probably GPL tribute to M:TG, would they be upset over it?

I was considering doing a Street Fighter Omega (as opposed to Alpha) for my next project. Blatantly tearing into an existing universe. I don't really see how they could object...it's not a direct competitor; it's more like interactive fanfiction. [smile]

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Extrarius    1412
Patent infringement you MIGHT be able to get away with, but whatever you do DO NOT INFRINGE TRADEMARKS. The reason for this rule is that trademark law requires the owner to defend the trademark or they lose the rights to it. Thus, naming a game "Street Fighter" anything is probably a very very bad move.
I'm not a lawyer.

As far as mana, if you use my idea of multiple hands (maybe call it spellbooks and you can move spells between books before the game but during you can only change books at the start of each turn?), you could have 'energy spells' that add to your mana after you pick which book to use. This way, you could have an 'energy book' that you use to build up tons of mana, then next turn you switch to the 'big attack book' and cast a huge spell or something like that. Maybe each turn you get 1 energy of each type (or maybe you specialize in types and get a lot in those types but little in others) and 'energy spells' are a way to quickly boost your pool in a specific type at the cost of a spell slot?

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Jan-Lieuwe    206
Have you looked at Phantasy Star Online 3 "Card Revolution"? It strongly reminded me of M:TG, although it uses a grid/playing field (the wizards are on there, as well as the summoned monsters).
So far I like it, although games can still take quite some time.

It uses dice for the mana. You roll two, to determine the amount of mana on your attack and defense turns. The dice will be sorted in favour of your attack turn.

During your attack you can summon monsters and/or 'cast' attacks/spells (on yourself or your minions).
You can react to your opponent's attacks if you have 'defense mana' and defensive cards.

It's still a pure card came, though... I see that you want to use a totally different system. Maybe you can make use of some of the simplifications mentioned...

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There are a billion ways to do this. Just make sure you know which elements you want to retain from MTG.

Going to the Paracelcian elements (earth, air...) is sketchy, because it isn't a cut-and-dried system. Everyone from Aristotle to Wiccans to Galen to Squaresoft has a system, and anyone who claims to know the "real" way is full of crap. Why "void" for the fifth? Reading a little Musashi, are you? Don't try to redivide the white/black/blue/red/green system into the four poles, because it'll never work right. You can't parse holy and unholy into the four element system. They're a different continuum.

Generally, you can go crazy with the four element system. I looked into it for a thought experiment of my own, and found it to be very interesting to try to combine the Aristotelian octagon (elements arranged in a square with "dry", "wet", "hot", and "cold" shared between them) with some of the Wiccan psychobabble regarding their totemic properties (air is aloof and intellectual, blah blah blah). I used that as the foundation of my world and built my creation myth (which sucked) my map (high cliffs for air, volcanic wasteland for fire, desert between them for "dry", etc.), my character geneology (I traced four races from the paracelsian totems of gnomes, sylphs, ondines and salamanders) and even my astrological progression and seasonal shift, so that each element's authority would wax and wane in sequence. For good and evil, I introduced a seperate plane, perpendicular to the octagon, with good at the top and evil at the bottom. PM me if you want more info about how I did this, but I don't think you should take too much from my half-baked idea. Figure out how you want to work the metaphysics of your world, and run with it.

One problem with MTG's system for structuring fights is how to represent damage to the player. I never really understood what exactly I had that allowed me to take 19 damage, enough to kill three shivan dragons, and still fight. Would you have a little guy on the board, running between the legs of his summoned critters while they fight godzilla-style for him? If you use that silly dynamic, have your guy inhabit a little circle of protection or something during the fight, so he can't be expected to participate and he can take the ridiculous abuse the player takes.

For a mana source, I'd say go with some kind of regenerating storage system, but have your "black mana battery" recharge faster in swamps than on plains, and your blue would go up faster on islands than in mountains. That way you are seldom awash in mana, but you don't need seven thousand acres of forest to summon a craw wurm.

Also take a look at how terrain affected characters in Tactics Ogre. Individual tiles on the board would offer bonuses to certain elements, and each character had an elemental affiliation. A sheet of ice, for instance, might offer +3 to a water guy while it takes -5 from an earth guy, so two otherwise equal guys fighting on a frozen lake would not be equal at all depending on their affiliation.

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templewulf    526
@Extrarius:
I had no idea it was that severe. If that's the case, what's the deal with all the fanfiction? Is it deemed just too rampant to deal with?

@Jan-Lieuwe:
I've didn't have any idea that there WAS a third Phantasy Star Online! [lol] It sounds like something I'd like. Was it any fun?

@Iron Chef Carnage:
I'm not using Void in the Buddhist emptiness sense like Musashi does, I'm just using it for my colorless spells! It sounds like you know quite a bit about M:TG. This whole thread is really just supposed to be a quick survey about what you like or dislike in M:TG.

Here's what I've got so far:
* Each player-wizard generates a quantity of elemental mana equal to their skill in that element each time their turn comes up.
* You can accumulate mana each turn by not using it, but you can't hold any more than your skill in that element multiplied by some constant to be determined later.
* When a battle starts, the player pulls up some generic force-field, so that they can be expected to take ridiculous damage.
* When standing on a type of land that's bursting with an element, all spells that have the element in the cost are reduced by some amount.
* Players / Monsters take turns based on speed, rather than whole sides taking a turn at once.

What I still want to know from you guys:
* What kinds of spells should wind and water have? Wind is supposed to be intelligent and psychic and all that, but what's water? It's supposed to represent spirituality and an emotional state. What the hell kind of spells can I make from that?
* What other improvements would you make to those mechanics?

[Edited by - templewulf on October 6, 2005 8:30:02 PM]

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Extrarius    1412
Quote:
Original post by templewulf
@Extrarius:
I had no idea it was that severe. If that's the case, what's the deal with all the fanfiction? Is it deemed just too rampant to deal with?[...]
Fanfiction generally falls under copyright infringement (because copyright covers 'derivative works' and fanfiction is obviously derived from the original), which afaik is the same as patent infringement - the company can let you get away with if they want. Generally, main characters and places and that kind of thing are not registered trademarks, so as long as you stay away from the title it is possibly ok. Titles (for everything from games to books to movies etc) are generally registered trademarks, so that is the main area of concern. However, main characters in franchises (mario, etc) might be registered so you should stay away from those as well. Regular trademarks are fine, it's just when they register them in the US that they must defend them. Just be careful =-)
Again, I'm not a lawyer

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Vopisk    144
As for a neat way that the "Magic: The Gathering" world can be portrayed, I would suggest hopping down to your local bookstore, looking for the section containing the Magic books (the ones written based off of the card game) and read "Arena". I won't go into it too much, cause then I would spoil the fun, however, it's worth a read if you're looking for a feasible way to do M:TG style combat without actually holding a deck of cards. That is all.

My two cents, something to chew on.

Vopisk

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Trapper Zoid    1370
Quote:
Original post by templewulf
@Extrarius:
I had no idea it was that severe. If that's the case, what's the deal with all the fanfiction? Is it deemed just too rampant to deal with?[...]


I'm not a lawyer either, but my understanding is that a company has to defend its trademarks only if it officially "knows" about an infringement, and most fan-fiction will go under the radar of these companies. Techincally it's illegal, but since a company will look like a total bastard if they shut these things down, I think they deliberately try not to know about these things.

But this could be complete nonsense, so feel free to ignore this since I really don't know what I'm talking about.

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Trapper Zoid    1370
Your game idea is starting to get close to an idea for a wizard duelling game I had a few years back (although mine was a FPS that never got past the "idea in my head" stage), so I can give you a few tips on element types that I had. They mightn't apply for your game, or for whatever mythology you are using for the element types, however.

Quote:
Original post by templewulf
What I still want to know from you guys:
* What kinds of spells should wind and water have? Wind is supposed to be intelligent and psychic and all that, but what's water? It's supposed to represent spirituality and an emotional state. What the hell kind of spells can I make from that?


For my idea, wind was one of the more powerful elements. I had the following characteristics with air spells:
  • Speed spells (very handy)
  • Flight/Levitation
  • Asphyxiation
  • Vacuum attacks (very deadly and quite gory too)

Also, since in my design you got elemental power from whatever elements you were near, you always had a constant supply of air magic unless you were underwater. It was actually a bit too overpowered, to be honest.

Water is the element of life, and also the element of reflection as well. It also has three common states in the real world, so can also be used as an element of change (as can fire). While air was deadlier in my game idea, water mages would rule in the native element. So you can have:
  • Healing spells
  • Reflection of magic
  • Transformation spells
  • Divination (although this could be any element really)
  • Water walking
  • Water breathing
  • Swift swimming
  • Storm and rain magics
  • Whirlpools and riptides (while in water)
  • Lightning (this can also be air or fire)
  • Ice attacks
  • Steam attacks (maybe with fire?)
  • Dehydration (again, very deadly)

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WeirdoFu    205
Actually, since we're looking at an RPG point of view, you might actually consider having physical mana source spread around the world.

Each mana source may be capable of generating one or a combination of types of mana at a specific rate, which you can gain access to by making physical pilgrimages to them. Sort of like signing a pact or something similar to gain access. Its been done before, like pacts with summon spirits in FFX, etc. However, you can only have a fixed number of "open" pacts with mana sources based on your level, which means you probably would need to choose as your spell needs change. This can then easily tie into your idea of regenerating mana, except its being replenish (tunnelled to you, putting it another way) depending on the sources you have pacts with. So, if you have pacts with 5 sources of mana of a certain type, your mana of that type will replenish five times faster, or depending on how strong the sources are.

Having physical mana sources bring up further variations in the game as you can make an enemy slightly easier by destroying or severing their pacts to mana sources, which then becomes strategic.

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Vopisk    144
To some extent or another, I'll agree with Wierdo Fu here. Physical links to the goodly "Mana Source" are always a good thing. This is how "stilling" or "severing" spells would be able to be put into play so that a mage could be cut off from their magic supply given the enemy spellcaster knows enough of their stuff. Could present some interesting options if you look into relevant fantasy writing and see how people "generally" respond to being cut off from any sort of magical power supply (I'm thinking Robert Jordan as an example here).

However, as for HOW the phyical part is implemented, well I'd refer again to the book - "Magic: The Gathering Arena". This book takes a whole new look at duelling and at how the whole system actually exists. The "plane" that the summoners live on is entirely seperate from all the fantastical beasts and they walk around with pouches that contain little tokens that represent either a certain spell or a mana source. So if you had a rare trillinium rock from the Big Bad Mountains, you'd have X amount of power generated in the "mountain"/red category. But, what the whole thing really boils down to is that when people duel, they generally put up one of their spells on the line, making the battles all the more interesting.

Anyway, I don't have a copy of the book anymore, and it's been approximately five years since I've read it so that's about the best I can remember, but I'll look for a copy so I can expand on this idea a bit more.

My two cents, something to chew on.

Vopisk

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templewulf    526
@WeirdoFu
I had considered that idea. I thought it would be neat to sort of "conquer" various areas, and then be able to use it as a mana source. It would be great for a RPG/RTS hybrid, but I don't really enjoy RTSs very much anymore.

The two problems I had with that idea were that it still used lands, which I wanted to separate from so that my game isn't a total ripoff of M:TG. The second was that it seems counter to good game balance.

For instance: You really suck at this game...a lot! If you just had one more mana source, you could totally whup this next guy. But you need to beat the next guy to get that mana source! The idea totally makes sense as far as story justifications, but how can we balance it for people who suck? [grin]

Original post by Trapper Zoid
I really what you're doing. Have you ever played Phantom Dust? It sounds a lot like your idea, but it's probably not as good as the one in your head. (What ever is?)
I did really like your suggestions for water. Especially the transformation and divination ideas, thanks!

In any case, which element would get the psychic spells like Control Magic or Telepathy?

Original post by Vopisk
Okay, I get it! Magic: The Gathering Arena! [lol] What kind of book is it? A novel, or more of a game encyclopedia? I haven't read the Wheel of Time books yet, but my girlfriend keeps bugging me to...so I suppose I'll have to!


New Question! Do you like the fact that spells can only be used once per battle in M:TG?
I think it's fantastic, because it prevents the kind of battles in most CRPGs, where you're just mashing the X button to get your characters to do their super damage spells as soon as possible. You can only drool over Ultima the first 20 times or so.
Any better ideas?

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Single-use spells are good, as long as you have up to four of some of them available to you. Deck construction was a huge part of MTG strat, and you might want to translate that into your system somehow. A super-long recharge time for some of them, like the cooldown in WarCraft III, would make them mostly single-use, but not lost. It would be best, I think, to have them start out at whatever level they ended the last fight, so you can't open every contest with your six uber-spells and then sit around like a chump for the rest of the match, waiting for them to recharge.

Also, everyone loves the head-to-head competition over certain things, like the competing force beams in Dragon Ball shows or the locked weapons in Dynasty Warriors.

I always liked the power sink counter, becasue it's counter-counterable. You send a lightning bolt over there, he hits you with a power sink, and then you tap a few more mana and push it through anyway. Fun dynamic.

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templewulf    526
@Iron Chef Carnage
As far as recharge goes, should it be different for different spells? Or should it be long for all of them, so you can't just spam the cheap spells?

Plus, should there be a limit on how many of a particular spell you can have? It was 4 per deck in M:TG, but what if you only limited it to how many the player could get ahold of? I can't think of any reason for the arbitrary limit story-wise.

Also, do you think that creatures should regenerate all of their HP every turn like they do in M:TG? That would be sort of upsetting if someone had a 1/8 wall, and you didn't have enough power to kill it. What kinds benefits are there to keeping the M:TG method of removing all damage at the end of each turn?

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Will you have spells as inventory items? It seems strange that you'd need to find or buy a spell six times in order to cast it six times in a fight. Maybe if they were conjured through some kind of talisman that needed to be recharged between fights or something, but otherwise it's a little tough to swallow.

As to recharging, I think recharge time should be proportional to the spell's power. Your lightning bolt will be ready to go every few turns, but Dakkon Blackblade won't. It might be worthwhile to use a slightly different dynamic for some summons. Having six Nebuchadnezzars out at the same time would be a little strange, I think.

How about if summons work more like the older Final Fantasy games, where you have to meet the summoned monsters and maybe pass a test or something before they'll come when you ask them to? Good relations with the Orc Chieftains will earn you recruiting privileges for a half-dozen weak units, but it'll take a real adventure to get the loyalty of a Lord of the Pit. Heck, you might make players have some units follow them around, so putting your Icatian Infantry into play is more of a troop deployment than an actual summon, but something like an Island Fish Jasconius would have to be "beamed in" magically. That could affect costs.

As to critter regeneration, I think a cRPG translation of the idea can afford to get a little more in-depth. Remember, in MTG it's power and toughness, and toughness isn't the same as HP. A thallid devourer doesn't get chewed up by Llanowar Elves and then heal inexplicably between rounds, he just makes it through that fight without getting hurt. His toughness is equal to or greater than the attackers' strength, and so he toughs it out. He catches his breath between rounds and is ready to go again.

Actual harm done to summoned units could be represented by tokens. If my White Knight gets into a scrap with an Armor Thrall, he'll shrug off its puny attack, but it might suffer a permanent -0/-1 due to his slashing up its chitinous shell. Next time it'll be weaker, and he'll finish it off. Walls could work the same way. A long siege could eventually wear a 1/8 wall down to the point at which it can be defeated. Some walls might have the option to be "healed" with an additional investment of mana.

Bear in mind that you are not bound to adhere strictly to MTG rules. You can throw in different damage types a la StarCraft, or the ability to create custom enchantments as in Morrowind, or any number of other clever things.

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templewulf    526
I think I'll be making summons a one-shot-per-spell. You'll take a "token of loyalty" which will serve as your link to summon a creature. So, you can only have one creature per token, but it can be re-used in following battles.

I'm not sure how I want to represent other spells, though. I was thinking you could show them as being generic bags of ingredients, but that's especially uninteresting. It would give you an excuse to only use it once per fight, because then you'd have to set it up again after the fight.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what I want to do. Now I just have to figure out how to lay out the engine. I'm going to use C++ for the engine, and python for the scripting, but I have no idea how to use a scripting engine! [smile]

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Trapper Zoid    1370
Quote:
Original post by templewulf
I really what you're doing. Have you ever played Phantom Dust? It sounds a lot like your idea, but it's probably not as good as the one in your head. (What ever is?)

No I haven't, in what ways is it similar? Besides, I've moved away from trying to design action-packed magic duelling FPSes, as there's no way I can do them justice all by myself. I also threw in a few different spells in there that weren't in my original design, as I had six elements (fire, water, air, earth, life/quintessence and "death", although death was a banned and twisted form of "life" that formed the basis of the plot), so healing spell would have definitely been under "life" and not "water". However in my design spells would usually be a combination of these types (i.e. lightning is fire, water and air), although mages had to pick whether they were life or death types (in retrospect, I guess it's a lot like the Force in Star Wars, isn't it?) There's probably heaps of problems with that system, as I never wrote it down to nitpick all the flaws. Anyway, back to your game [smile]

Quote:
I did really like your suggestions for water. Especially the transformation and divination ideas, thanks!

In any case, which element would get the psychic spells like Control Magic or Telepathy?


I'm not sure what "void" is meant to represent in your game, so it's possible that it would be appropriate for "control magic". Telepathy can fit into any element, really. If you had an electrical element, I'd pick that (reading the electrical signals in the brain), or a life element (reading auras maybe?). Since these two don't really fit into any one element, I would just design everything else first, then assign these two to whichever element type is weakest in order to balance it out.

Quote:
New Question! Do you like the fact that spells can only be used once per battle in M:TG?
I think it's fantastic, because it prevents the kind of battles in most CRPGs, where you're just mashing the X button to get your characters to do their super damage spells as soon as possible. You can only drool over Ultima the first 20 times or so.
Any better ideas?


I like it how spells are both limited and random in card based games, such as Lost Kingdoms, as there's both an element of randomness and strategy in which card to play. Are you still going with a card based system, or is it more on the line of having resources (such as limited reagents, or a spell book as in D&D)?

Quote:
I think I have a pretty good idea of what I want to do. Now I just have to figure out how to lay out the engine. I'm going to use C++ for the engine, and python for the scripting, but I have no idea how to use a scripting engine! [smile]

Join the club [grin]. I've got to start work on designing my engine too, and I've got no idea on the best way to use scripting. Although for my game (a space shmup), I might just pass on scripting for now. Best of luck!

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Vopisk    144
Pertaining to my constant reiteration that the OP should read the "Arena" book. It is a novel, as are all of the books in the "Magic: The Gathering" series of short novels. In past years the books have been written to coincide with the release of each expansion, thus you have a book that kinda, explores the worlds of Magic: The Gathering and delves into some of the new creatures and things in a way that just reading or looking at a card cannot provide. Having read most of them as of about three years ago, they were very good, and as I've said plenty of times already, I would recommend Arena, which was the original, for some research into making this game.

But neither here nor there, let me throw in my two cents as it purtains to re-using spells in combat.

I believe that this will all depend on what type of magical system you are employing. If magic in your game world is ingredient based, then yes, spells would have to be either painfully simple or prepared in advance so that you can use them quickly in combat, however, if the magic system is based on "words of power" or "runes" then I see no applicable reason why the spell might not be able to be re-used in any given combat situation, except in the case of summons where I do think that some sort of token inventory system would be best. Perhaps the player can have a special object that is their little bag of tricks, wherein they keep all of their summons tokens and can have a little quick menu to grab them out and summon forth the fiery Pit Fiend or Avatar of Woe. Who knows?

I saw recently at the local video game store that there is currently a Magic: The Gathering video game in a Fighting/FPS/RPG-ish style. It may be worth looking into for research in how your game can be ported.

Anyway, more of my nonsense,

Vopisk

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WeirdoFu    205
I remember in Crono Cross, you were limited to how many times you can use a spell of a certain level based on your skill/character level. So, like around lvl 20 the number of times you can use spells of each level may be like 5/3/1 (5 lvl 1 spells, 3 lvl 2, and 1 lvl 3). This counter was reset only after your party rests/sleeps. That's probably another way to limit spell use.

Also, as to physical mana sources and players that may suck and never get any, most RPGs get around stuff like that by having default sources. So, in your adventures, you will visit various villages which may have been built on top or around physical mana sources, which you are guaranteed access to in one form or another. Of course, these won't be the most powerful ones, but they'll usually be enough to get you going. Physical mana sources don't really have to be tied down to land. They can be monuments, statues, a certain tree or rock or just some magical item that has sat around in a place long enough to absorb enough mana from the surrounding environment.

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templewulf    526
Well, I think I know what I want for now. I'll give a quick summary, and you guys can let me know what you think.

* All creatures (wizards included) have a stamina meter in %. They're available for use once the percent is at 100.

* "prepare spell" is analagous to drawing a card in M:TG. The trick is that the larger your "on hand" spell pool is, the longer it will take to prepare one.

* The caster generates mana for each element equal to his affinity to that element for each clock "tick". That mana can accumulate to some maximum also related to his elemental affinity. I think I'm going to make the magic objects idea periphery; sort of an extra boost alongside the internal mana.

* Summoning Spells (for both items and creatures) can't be reused, but once they're unsummoned you can cast it again.

* Non-summon spells will have a cool-down time as I.C.C. suggested. It'll vary based on the abusable nature of the spell.

* I'm going with a tactical grid layout as opposed to the abstract approach from M:TG. I think that'll just simplify it for when I implement the in-field spell use.


Any final criticism before I begin coding myself to death? [lol]

PS: Thanks a lot to everyone, you've really helped me shape this design!



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