Question a grizzled and not yet bitter veteran
Hey Jeff, I am 21 and working on my associates of arts in computer science. I have been programming for years in basic and visual basic and have only within the last year or so decided that I wanted to be a game developer and learned C++. I knew for a long time I loved to program and loved games and I feel that becoming a game developer would be the perfect job for me. My problem is that I am a busy guy IE: I work full time, go to college full time and recently got married and my wife and I just had a perfectly healthy baby boy. So as I am sure you can tell it is hard for me to stay motivated and start or finish a project. Do you have any tips that may help me get the motivation I need?
The Jeff Lander? The one of "Physics on the Back of a Cocktail Napkin"? OMG. Gamedev.net will never cease to amaze me.
I have a question about the long-term future of game development. As of today, games are more and more expensive, mostly because they need more and more resources - better 3D models, textures, and so on. TES4:Oblivion, for example, has been in development for years, and the Oblivion team was just enormous (if it looks like the Morrowind team, then nearly 200 people worked on this game). The estimated cost of this game is probably along the line of "Way too much".
In ten years, today's graphics will be outdated. Models will be even more complex, and textures will be bigger (because the technology will support it). As a consequence, games will cost even more than now. But the cost of the game development can't increase continuously - because the price of a box can't increase at the same pace (who will want to pay US$200 for Quake 6?). As I see it, it seems that there is a problem - it seems that the industry is playing a snake-like game.
What are your thought about the long term evolutions of games, and more widely abou the evolution of the game industry?
Thanks for your time!
I have a question about the long-term future of game development. As of today, games are more and more expensive, mostly because they need more and more resources - better 3D models, textures, and so on. TES4:Oblivion, for example, has been in development for years, and the Oblivion team was just enormous (if it looks like the Morrowind team, then nearly 200 people worked on this game). The estimated cost of this game is probably along the line of "Way too much".
In ten years, today's graphics will be outdated. Models will be even more complex, and textures will be bigger (because the technology will support it). As a consequence, games will cost even more than now. But the cost of the game development can't increase continuously - because the price of a box can't increase at the same pace (who will want to pay US$200 for Quake 6?). As I see it, it seems that there is a problem - it seems that the industry is playing a snake-like game.
What are your thought about the long term evolutions of games, and more widely abou the evolution of the game industry?
Thanks for your time!
how hard is it to get into companies that have game departments?
the reason i ask is because i have spoken to a fair few game developers the ones who have made it, all have degrees.
whereas the others i speak to that don't have degrees, are stuck at home dreaming.
i live in the uk, i am out in the sticks, where i live there is a pub that is the last pub in britian and the first in wales. because the pub is on the border.
i was wondering do you have to be able to get to the office to be a programmer for a company, i see alot of companies that are from usa etc, but not so many in the uk, and none near by, and i don't drive. would that affect things?
i am a beginner although i have been programming for years. i started off in a scripting language, i then move onto c++, then to c. read books on both, but never did anything with them. i then turned to hla (high level assembly) then to fasm assembler. i couldn't find a place to sit and live basically, i only recently whilst cleaning my living room scaned through a few of my books and realised that my directx books started at beginner level, well atleast some of them, before i "thought" i needed a strong background in programming to start with directx or opengl.
with a programmer background, how long would you think it would take for somone to become a use in c++ and directx? i spend between 3-11 hours on a computer a day.
is math required, i mean advanced math for graphics. i barely and i mean barely remember my high-school math. i am tempted to aquire some books on math to get me up to speed, re-explaining the high-school stuff, then moving on.
right now looking for free books tho (anyone?) before i go into my bank account (money is tight got a baby on way so scraping money behind for taxis (costs me £30+ to get back from hospital))
thank you.
the reason i ask is because i have spoken to a fair few game developers the ones who have made it, all have degrees.
whereas the others i speak to that don't have degrees, are stuck at home dreaming.
i live in the uk, i am out in the sticks, where i live there is a pub that is the last pub in britian and the first in wales. because the pub is on the border.
i was wondering do you have to be able to get to the office to be a programmer for a company, i see alot of companies that are from usa etc, but not so many in the uk, and none near by, and i don't drive. would that affect things?
i am a beginner although i have been programming for years. i started off in a scripting language, i then move onto c++, then to c. read books on both, but never did anything with them. i then turned to hla (high level assembly) then to fasm assembler. i couldn't find a place to sit and live basically, i only recently whilst cleaning my living room scaned through a few of my books and realised that my directx books started at beginner level, well atleast some of them, before i "thought" i needed a strong background in programming to start with directx or opengl.
with a programmer background, how long would you think it would take for somone to become a use in c++ and directx? i spend between 3-11 hours on a computer a day.
is math required, i mean advanced math for graphics. i barely and i mean barely remember my high-school math. i am tempted to aquire some books on math to get me up to speed, re-explaining the high-school stuff, then moving on.
right now looking for free books tho (anyone?) before i go into my bank account (money is tight got a baby on way so scraping money behind for taxis (costs me £30+ to get back from hospital))
thank you.
Author
Emperior Q#2:
Programmers are a bit specialized but there is a lot of cross pollination. Typically most companies have two groups, the tech team that work on general engine related features (particularly if they do their own engine and cross platform). On that team you would have your low level graphics, specific console, physics, collision, networking type people. They support the gameplay team. The gameplay team includes the project lead or leads and the programmers doing the gameplay for a particular project. Gameplay people are usually not as specialized but have strong programming and perhaps AI skills. There are lots of variations of this but that is the basics. As for your skill, it depends on what you like and what you are good at. If writing really fast low level rendering code is your thing, tech team. If it is AI and game scripting, go for a gameplay role. Often the specialties are what get you in the door easier. It is much easier to find a guy who can do general gameplay but a collision/physics guru is much harder to find and easier to place.
Gor:
You have to be motivated to get anything you want. I know time can be tough but if you are unhappy doing what you are already doing, it is not going to get better on its own. I just suggest finding what your passion is an going for it regardless of what that is. My philosophy is set a goal and make sure you make one positive step a day to get towards that. If you want to be a game developer, line out the steps you need to take to get there and start. The steps don't have to be huge. Meet some local developers and talk to them. Take someone's demo and make a small change that makes it better. Stuff like that.
More later everyone....
Programmers are a bit specialized but there is a lot of cross pollination. Typically most companies have two groups, the tech team that work on general engine related features (particularly if they do their own engine and cross platform). On that team you would have your low level graphics, specific console, physics, collision, networking type people. They support the gameplay team. The gameplay team includes the project lead or leads and the programmers doing the gameplay for a particular project. Gameplay people are usually not as specialized but have strong programming and perhaps AI skills. There are lots of variations of this but that is the basics. As for your skill, it depends on what you like and what you are good at. If writing really fast low level rendering code is your thing, tech team. If it is AI and game scripting, go for a gameplay role. Often the specialties are what get you in the door easier. It is much easier to find a guy who can do general gameplay but a collision/physics guru is much harder to find and easier to place.
Gor:
You have to be motivated to get anything you want. I know time can be tough but if you are unhappy doing what you are already doing, it is not going to get better on its own. I just suggest finding what your passion is an going for it regardless of what that is. My philosophy is set a goal and make sure you make one positive step a day to get towards that. If you want to be a game developer, line out the steps you need to take to get there and start. The steps don't have to be huge. Meet some local developers and talk to them. Take someone's demo and make a small change that makes it better. Stuff like that.
More later everyone....
Is your name truly Jeff Lander? You have a similar story as Garriott -- not to mention the fact that you mentioned Ultima, and zip-lock baggies.
Either way, what truly impresses game development companies when they hire a guy on?
And what's better? A few good solid programs, or a bunch of little programs that may be incomplete, but do what they were intended?
Either way, what truly impresses game development companies when they hire a guy on?
And what's better? A few good solid programs, or a bunch of little programs that may be incomplete, but do what they were intended?
I just got hired at NDL with a 2.5 gpa in computer science. I created a partly completed 2D physics engine, which demonstrated my ability to design and code. If you can stick with something long enough to complete it, then you can impress employers. And I definately consider myself lucky to be working in the games industry. I'm going to GDC 2006 on company time.. w00t!!!
Author
Sorry for the delay. Out of town for a few days. So many good questions and nice comments, I will have to do this more often. Thanks everyone for taking the time and I will try to post more frequently on this board.
To answer these last questions:
Emmanuel: Thanks for reading the articles. I still plan on updating those with more content when I get some time and also write a whole bunch of new ones I haven't had time to get down on paper yet. For those who haven't read them most of my old Game Developer articles are on my website with source code at wwww.darwin3d.com/gamedev.htm. I also work on a conference called Game Tech and we have audio of some of those sessions up at www.game-tech.com. For your question, this is one that is making a lot of us think now. The teams are hard to manage as is and much bigger would be even worse. Also as you say, we can't work forever on these with unlimited money. Something has to happen. I think a few things will happen. You can look at the film industry which is a bit ahead of us in business maturity though we are catching up in every way. There is a lot of specialization there. They also do a lot of collaborative projects with multiple studios working on one title. You are seeing that already with multi-platform games having multiple teams involved. Some reuse of tech and things like game engines will help a lot as well. I think EA purchasing the Renderware engine is a sign of this happening. Also, I think we will finally see episodic games come about. The economics and consumer desires will drive it. In a way the current WOW type games do this already. Build the basic system, give some content then follow up with updated episodes with more content. It seems that this is really the way we need to at least start thinking.
Damnation: Unfortunately, location can often matter. It certainly helps to be near a lot of developers so you can see what they are doing and talk to them. The IGDA is very active in the UK so that may be a good resource. You certainly don't need to know graphics to get a code job in games. It can helps since many jobs are graphics/math related. But there are other jobs that are needed as well that can get you in a door. We have network coders, IT people, tools programmers who are strong at window UI design, etc. I would say figure out what you like doing and sharpen your skills in those areas. Then tailor it to spin toward what game companies are looking for. I think there is also a ton of free info on the web that can point you in the right direction. This forum is certainly a big help with pointers to articles and demos that I wish I had when I started. Math is helpful since it is the common language of games but not everyone is or needs to be an expert at it.
Afrofire: Truly my name. Thank the parent for that. Being even mentioned with RG is flattering. I think companies are impressed with a sharp person with good strong skills who knows what they want to do and can communicate it. That is probably true of all jobs. But it really depends on what you are going for. A lead with 5 titles that all sold millions and were rated 90+ would certainly impress but there are few of those. So you go in strong with what you have. I said it before that I don't need to see something totally polished. If it is, great but if you have a bunch of stuff that shows a variety of skills, do what you wanted them to, and most importantly, you thoroughly understand the programs and the techniques used, even better. For example, if you have a demo of some research you were doing and it shows how you approached the problem and the problems and solutions you encountered, that is pretty great.
pTymN: Great job. Sounds like you did it exactly right. The NDL guys are a really nice group. If you see me at GDC, say hi.
To answer these last questions:
Emmanuel: Thanks for reading the articles. I still plan on updating those with more content when I get some time and also write a whole bunch of new ones I haven't had time to get down on paper yet. For those who haven't read them most of my old Game Developer articles are on my website with source code at wwww.darwin3d.com/gamedev.htm. I also work on a conference called Game Tech and we have audio of some of those sessions up at www.game-tech.com. For your question, this is one that is making a lot of us think now. The teams are hard to manage as is and much bigger would be even worse. Also as you say, we can't work forever on these with unlimited money. Something has to happen. I think a few things will happen. You can look at the film industry which is a bit ahead of us in business maturity though we are catching up in every way. There is a lot of specialization there. They also do a lot of collaborative projects with multiple studios working on one title. You are seeing that already with multi-platform games having multiple teams involved. Some reuse of tech and things like game engines will help a lot as well. I think EA purchasing the Renderware engine is a sign of this happening. Also, I think we will finally see episodic games come about. The economics and consumer desires will drive it. In a way the current WOW type games do this already. Build the basic system, give some content then follow up with updated episodes with more content. It seems that this is really the way we need to at least start thinking.
Damnation: Unfortunately, location can often matter. It certainly helps to be near a lot of developers so you can see what they are doing and talk to them. The IGDA is very active in the UK so that may be a good resource. You certainly don't need to know graphics to get a code job in games. It can helps since many jobs are graphics/math related. But there are other jobs that are needed as well that can get you in a door. We have network coders, IT people, tools programmers who are strong at window UI design, etc. I would say figure out what you like doing and sharpen your skills in those areas. Then tailor it to spin toward what game companies are looking for. I think there is also a ton of free info on the web that can point you in the right direction. This forum is certainly a big help with pointers to articles and demos that I wish I had when I started. Math is helpful since it is the common language of games but not everyone is or needs to be an expert at it.
Afrofire: Truly my name. Thank the parent for that. Being even mentioned with RG is flattering. I think companies are impressed with a sharp person with good strong skills who knows what they want to do and can communicate it. That is probably true of all jobs. But it really depends on what you are going for. A lead with 5 titles that all sold millions and were rated 90+ would certainly impress but there are few of those. So you go in strong with what you have. I said it before that I don't need to see something totally polished. If it is, great but if you have a bunch of stuff that shows a variety of skills, do what you wanted them to, and most importantly, you thoroughly understand the programs and the techniques used, even better. For example, if you have a demo of some research you were doing and it shows how you approached the problem and the problems and solutions you encountered, that is pretty great.
pTymN: Great job. Sounds like you did it exactly right. The NDL guys are a really nice group. If you see me at GDC, say hi.
Wow. Terrific stuff. Thanks for your time Jeff. Your insights are a goldmine for a beginner like me.
The use of libraries....
If you are studying in your spare time with a view to get into professional games programming are you better off doing all the programing for your graphics, sound, networking from the ground up. To show a deep understanding of the inner workings of such procedures.... Reinventing the wheel (so to speak) just to show that you can, with the downside being you wont have many finished projects due to working more on the "nitty-gritty" elements.
Or would you be better severed using libraries like SDL, DX, etc, etc and having a lot of finished projects in many different areas and techniques?
If you are studying in your spare time with a view to get into professional games programming are you better off doing all the programing for your graphics, sound, networking from the ground up. To show a deep understanding of the inner workings of such procedures.... Reinventing the wheel (so to speak) just to show that you can, with the downside being you wont have many finished projects due to working more on the "nitty-gritty" elements.
Or would you be better severed using libraries like SDL, DX, etc, etc and having a lot of finished projects in many different areas and techniques?
This topic is closed to new replies.
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