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someboddy

Slow motion from the other side

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First of all, I am not talking about slow motion that makes you faster in addiditon to slowing down the time, like in Spiderman 2 or in Jedi Academy. I am talking about slow motion like in Max Pyne, that simply slows down the time, therefore gives you faster reactions. I was thinking about the implementing of slow motion in multiplayer. If player wastes energy to go into slow motion, the entire server, or at least some area around him, should be in slow motion as well. Therefore, player B, his enemy, will also be in slow motion, and benefit from it. That will make the slow motion useless, since it wastes your energy without giving you any advantage. I have an idea for solving this problem. If player B get a controll lag - after player B presses a button, there will be a short delay(about 0.25sec) before his command is executed. That should remove the faster reactions advantage he gets without wasting energy. I see 3 problems with this solution: The first problem is that player B will have hard time to controll his character while player A is in slow motion mode. I don't want it to be like that. I want to make player B's reaction slower, but still accurate. Being in slow motion might balance it, but I am not sure. Anyways, I think that the camera controll should not suffer from the lag. I shooters, the crosshair will suffer from the lag, so it won't always be in the center of the screen. The second problem is that fast and slow players suffer from the same lag. If player C is fighting with player B, and player B has faster reactions, then player B has an advantage on player C. That's the way things should be. Now, if player A gets near and uses slow motion, both player B and player C are in slow motion, and suffer from the same lag. That means, that player B loses his advantage on player C. I want to let player B to keep his advantage from being the human. Maybe I can force each players to do a reaction speed test before he starts the game, but I think that it would be ridiculous. The third problem is that I didn't removed from player B the second advantage of slow motion - more time to think and plan your next move. I can't think of solution for this problem. So, what do you guys think?

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I think I've read about someone who found a solution to this problem; it might have been for The Matrix Online. From what I remember, I think when someone used "slow motion", it only affected a local area around the player, and everything else ran on normal time. I think they might have also accelerated time afterwards in order to get the clocks back into sync (although I'm not sure about that; I'm can't remember whether that would have been important).

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Personally, I don't think there would be any acceptable method of removing reaction bonuses from a human player who is sucked into slow motion, when that reaction bonus is only due to the fact that time has slowed down.

If I have real-human super reaction time compared to another player, I recieve much more of a penalty by the added time delays to my commands. And if another player has very slow real-human reaction time, the slow motion may give that player an actual bonus when he and his opponent are pulled into slow motion. IE, he performs better with your penalty.

edit: Oops. I guess you touched on that. Sorry for reading through too fast.

Also, I believe only physics were kept in check in Max Payne. I believe you could actually move slightly faster with his ability. But diving into the air would result in having to wait for gravity to push you down. I can't be positive, though. It's been a long time.

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Quote:
Original post by Trapper Zoid
I think I've read about someone who found a solution to this problem; it might have been for The Matrix Online. From what I remember, I think when someone used "slow motion", it only affected a local area around the player, and everything else ran on normal time. I think they might have also accelerated time afterwards in order to get the clocks back into sync (although I'm not sure about that; I'm can't remember whether that would have been important).


That is a solution, but not to the problem I have pointed. The player won't care about the reaction speed of the players in a far room. He cares about the reaction speed of the players he is fighting, that are in the area of the effect.

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F.E.A.R. has slomo in multiplayer. Basically, they had everyone go ito slomo, but gave the instigator boosted rate-of-fire and improved movement speed. I know it's not what your'e looking for, but it approximates the effect. Basically, you take the time dilation effect, and then you modify the common denominator until everyone is playing in "real-time" or greater, because you can't actually adjust the relative timestreams in which your players play.

Localizing it is okay, and I remember a counterstrike mod that did this, but it's far from ideal. You have to bend all your map design and gameplay pacing to accomodate the "time bubbles" and that's a bit of a hassle down the road, I'd guess.

Aiming speed caps are good, but all that really does is change your mouse sensitivity, and some players keep it slow anyway. No sense going into slomo if it'll just help that sniper plug you.

Enough pessimism. Here's my suggestion: Put everyone in slomo, but let the slomo player see bullet trails so he can dodge.

I know, it sounds crappy, but there's more to it. Here we go:

Normally, bullets are instant-impact, so there's no getting out of the way. That's still true in slomo; bullets hit right where they're aimed right when you pull the trigger, with two differences:

First difference: After a bullet is fired, a rippling "bullet trail" traces its trajectory, giving cool visuals and showing where they're coming from. Bullets hit at the moment they're fired, not when the bullet trail gets there.

Second difference: Bullets don't hit the slomo player, but bullet trails do. The actual instant-impact bullet that puts holes in scenery and players doesn't actually hit the slomo player. However, the bullet trail that follows in at a visible pace is like the bullet to him.

So, in slomo, non-slomo players can't see bullet trails and are hit instantly when they're in the path of a bullet, while the slomo player can see bullet trails and can avoid damage by avoiding the trails.

That way, you can put your crosshairs on the slomo guy and pull the trigger, but he'll "dodge" it, but if he sights you in and drops the hammer, you're immediately pegged.

Non-slomo guys get a little benefit from the slomo for aiming purposes, maybe, but they're also slower and easier to hit, so they derive no net profit or loss unless the slomo guy is in the room with them, in which case he's got the upper hand immediately.

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Well if person a enter slomo person b should see person a moving at a faster rate, and person b's actions should be slowed down small bit, since you cant truely dilate person b playing in real time.

Also you could allow players to have various slomo speeds by using a speed modifier or some kind, such that players can improve their speeds over time.

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Quote:
Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
So, in slomo, non-slomo players can't see bullet trails and are hit instantly when they're in the path of a bullet, while the slomo player can see bullet trails and can avoid damage by avoiding the trails.

I know I'm just being a punk, but wouldn't this have some strange results? Such as players being shot behind the slomo character, then the slomo character being hit, afterwards, by the same bullet? IE, the same bullet that might not have hit the player in back since the slomo character's body slowed it down? The same would be true for scenery damage, bullet holes, and whatnot.

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Quote:
Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
Aiming speed caps are good, but all that really does is change your mouse sensitivity, and some players keep it slow anyway. No sense going into slomo if it'll just help that sniper plug you.


I am not talking about fast movement. I'm talking about fast reactions. if player A and player B use the same mouse sensitivity, and they both move their mouses left at the same speed, they will both spin at the same speed. The diffrence is that player B will start spining 0.25sec after he started moving the mouse, and stop spining 0.25sec after he stopped moving the mouse, while player A won't have that delay.

About the bullet trails thing, I someone shoots at you, no matter how fast can you think, your body does not have enough time to avoid the bullet. This is fast reactions, not fast movement. Maybe you don't understand what I want. I will give you an example:

The advantage of fast reactions is that the player can see the shooter before he shoots, and avoid that. Maby some very fast shooting animation. In slow motion mode, player A will be able to see that player B is shooting, and start the dodge before player B presses the trigger. Player B will not be able to change his aim, because he has the 0.25sec delay. Player C can also see that player B is shooting at him, but unlike player A, he won't be able to dodge in time, because he have a delay.

Same thing go for a melee combat.

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So you give everyone else lag? Too cruel.

Although, reading the rest of your post...

How about giving lag on everyone else's shots? Like my half-baked bullet trail idea, but backwards. Player A (the slomo guy) has normal gameplay, but it's slower, so he can aim more carefully, etc. Player B (his opponent)also has slowed gameplay, but when he pulls the trigger on his gun, there's a brief--maybe 1/4 second depending on balance and whatnot--delay.

During this delay, Player A can see a little red line or something from Player B's gun to player B's point of aim. This gives him a chance to anticipate the shot and not be there. Less zany than actually dodging bullets, and it solves that whole "misplaced shots" thing that Kest so punkily described.

It would amount to a premonition of the other guy's shot. Does that jive with your idea?

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