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brent_chua

Which school is better?(fullsail vs Guildhall)

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Hi all.This is my first post here so here goes.hehe Im actually taking computer Science right now.And i'm currently in first year college(which I still have 3yrs to go). So after I graduate in CS im planning to take up game design and development.And my primary choice is (as my parents already agreed to) to study in Fullsail. I know that there's a topic about the schools and stuff but I encountered another school that is not included in the list.Its name is Guildhall.As I was looking at their works and stuff it looks so much cooler comapred to the works of fullsail students. Now im totally confused which school to go.I really wanted to go to fullsail but now im quite not sure because...ummm.....i dont know but their works....kinda.....well.....Guildhall has an excellent graphics and it seems that their very strict with their education. But I don't know anything more about that. So anyone could help me which school is much better?

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On a related note, which school is better: Harvard or Yale? Or maybe Stanford? Or maybe a local university or community college due to cost and availability?


ANSWER: Just get a degree. From anywhere you can. Justify the particular school if you want to, but it's still just a degree.

An employer MIGHT give you additional weight if they think the school is especially good. But they're more likely to give more weight to the fact that you completed the program and then look at your experience and previous results. (ie: demos, portfolios, and work history)

frob.

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Some compare/contrast besides "pretty graphics":

fullsail accepts anyone.
guildhall requires a bachelors and good grades.
fullsail uses a 3rd party engine for most final projects.
I'm not sure what the guildhall uses - or if they do it from scratch.
There is lots and lots of negative buzz about fullsail (but lots of negative comments you'll find online are blatant lies... nevertheless it's fishy - how many schools do you know of that sued a website for damaging their reputation?)
There's not a whole lot on guildhall, it's much much smaller (i think i read something like 15 in a class versus up to 200 @ fullsail) - but they have more known names than fullsail (fullsail only has 1 famous name, who's famous for a pen and paper game...)

I've researched a lot about gaming schools (and traditional schools that offer traditional cs degrees) - and I completely ruled fullsail out for myself. Partially because other schools offered a curriculum I thought I'd be more satisfied with (ie fullsail only requires 3 math courses... others require over 9), and partially because of all the negative buzz (whether legitimate or not) was too fishy for me to risk 65,000$ on.

I've heard good stories about people who already have bcs degree's liking both places, so who knows for sure. You also may want to check out DigiPen - they offer a masters which might be more appealing to you instead of a second bachelors or an associates.

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Original post by frob
On a related note, which school is better: Harvard or Yale? Or maybe Stanford? Or maybe a local university or community college due to cost and availability?


ANSWER: Just get a degree. From anywhere you can. Justify the particular school if you want to, but it's still just a degree.

An employer MIGHT give you additional weight if they think the school is especially good. But they're more likely to give more weight to the fact that you completed the program and then look at your experience and previous results. (ie: demos, portfolios, and work history)

frob.


just had to comment on this. if you've got a degree from harvard or yale someone is going to hire you - most people would hire you... if you get a degree from your local community college someone might hire you if you have prior experience in the field or a great portfolio... which college a degree comes from does matter...

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I live here in Orlando and know people who have attended Full Sail or worked there, etc., and I honestly recommend just getting a BS in computer science from a "real" school. You'll get more out of it, you'll have more options in the end, and you'll probably have a better chance at getting a job doing what you want to do.

I almost attended Full Sail and opted instead for U.C.F. up the road. It is much, much cheaper and I can't begin to explain how happy I am that I didn't go to Full Sail. It's a pretty good C.S. department with tons of simulation industry in the area (in Research Park practically on campus), so students who are motivated to do so can graduate with a significant amount of experience in simulation already under their belts. Game companies like the simulation experience.



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Quote:
Original post by c0uchm0nster
just had to comment on this. if you've got a degree from harvard or yale someone is going to hire you - most people would hire you... if you get a degree from your local community college someone might hire you if you have prior experience in the field or a great portfolio... which college a degree comes from does matter...

I disagree on some of that. Also, paying attention to your capitalization and punctuation, we can safely infer something of your education and experience.

Over the past 15 years, I've been on several hiring teams for different companies, and there is a common consensus.

People who go to the "elite" schools tend to have bigger egos and come from richer families that expect to be compensated by virtue of their lineage. The people from ivy league schools aren't going to make it in the games industry. They'll probably get hired by some big company where that is acceptable, and promoted to management where they will cause the least damage.

Other than that, I've never seen anyone on the hiring teams care much about the school.

As far as your comments about how ivy league educated people will find a job, but commonly educated people will not, I've never seen that.

On every hiring team I've been on, there was a slight (tiny) bias toward schools that we know something about, but otherwise accept that a degree from a real school shows that a person:

* Can complete projects. A BS degree is a four-year, voluntary, expensive work.
* Can learn. If they can't learn and stay current in their field, they'll soon be fired.
* Is at least somewhat intelligent. If they cheated through school, they'll soon be fired.
* Is at least somewhat technically competent in the field.
* Has at least a bit of social skills.
* Understands at least a little about business hierarchies.

It really doesn't matter which school they're from. In fact, it often doesn't matter what area the degree is in, as long as it relates at least somewhat toward the job. A BS in computer science, math, or physics is fine, as long as you can write code. A BS in English, psychology, literature, or other dramatic field is nice, as long as you can write storyline scripts.

frob.

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Not to sure which is technically better, but I do know that the Guildhall is closely affiliated with ID software, and that a few students there got to intern on DOOM 3! I would say go where the connections are. I went to DeVry for that reason (they are very well hooked up in the business world, and an excellent school if you apply yourself) and I havn't regreted it so far :)

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Personally I'd recommend getting your CS degree from a real school especially if it is a prestigous school. When I interview people if they from some place like fullsail I'm always quite skeptical about the scalability of their education. Computer science isn't about knowing how to program or how to make games or any of that, it's more about knowing the concepts and being able to learn that stuff. Technology in this industry changes way too fast for any type of vocational education to be very beneficial.

So to sum up I'd recommend getting your CS degree from as prestigous a CS school you can get into and working on games as a side project. But that's my own preference of course, anyone in the industry will tell you there are many varied and different ways to get in.

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I'm proof that it's the results that count. I have a Masters degree in Vocal Pedagogy and an undergraduate degree in Music Education. I am currently working as an application developer for a fairly large company in the financial sector. As for the music degrees, I have a nice refrigerator magnet and large student loan payments.

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Im a freshman at Digipen. I took alot of initiative before coming here to learn c++ and 2d game programming in allegro. Basically, almost all of the people that go here dont know anything there first year (I was dissapointed that nobody really wanted to make games like I did). Someone mentioned ID software by another school, well within 2 miles of Digipen is: Bungie,Valve, Monolith, others I dont know yet. Not to mention the top guys get hired into Nintendo by the owner of Digipen, and the whole town is owned by Microsoft. I will say tho, that people are dropping/failing like crazy and I dont understand why. There was a game made by 2 people called "narbicular drop", if u want to check that game out, it got picked up by Valve and they hired the two kids to remake it.

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Here's some of the formentioned negative buzz concerning Fullsail. Most of the reviews aren't given by people who studied under their game development program, but they still make me a bit wary of the school.

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Both schools (all game development schools for that matter) are relatively new, so don't expect too many well-informed opinions. You will need to rely on your own research.

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Original post by dpadam450
Im a freshman at Digipen. I took alot of initiative before coming here to learn c++ and 2d game programming in allegro. Basically, almost all of the people that go here dont know anything there first year (I was dissapointed that nobody really wanted to make games like I did). Someone mentioned ID software by another school, well within 2 miles of Digipen is: Bungie,Valve, Monolith, others I dont know yet. Not to mention the top guys get hired into Nintendo by the owner of Digipen, and the whole town is owned by Microsoft. I will say tho, that people are dropping/failing like crazy and I dont understand why. There was a game made by 2 people called "narbicular drop", if u want to check that game out, it got picked up by Valve and they hired the two kids to remake it.


The majority of people fail out because they don't realize how much work is involved in creating a game. Their impressions as gamers is, "Oh, this isn't hard. I can make this." Once they get into school and the work load starts to pile up, they can't handle it. It's sad really, since they take up the chairs that could have been filled by people that really wanted to be there.

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Original post by Dorvo
Quote:
Original post by dpadam450
Im a freshman at Digipen. ... Basically, almost all of the people that go here dont know anything there first year (I was dissapointed that nobody really wanted to make games like I did). ... I will say tho, that people are dropping/failing like crazy and I dont understand why.


The majority of people fail out because they don't realize how much work is involved in creating a game. Their impressions as gamers is, "Oh, this isn't hard. I can make this." Once they get into school and the work load starts to pile up, they can't handle it. It's sad really, since they take up the chairs that could have been filled by people that really wanted to be there.


That's why at big schools, the first year classes are held in stadium-like halls and taught by student TAs. They *know* most of them are going to drop, so you might as well herd them in like cattle and use cheap labor to weed out the slackers.

frob.

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That's why at big schools, the first year classes are held in stadium-like halls and taught by student TAs. They *know* most of them are going to drop, so you might as well herd them in like cattle and use cheap labor to weed out the slackers.

Heh.

What's cool about UCF here in Orlando is that they have what they call the "Foundation Exam", which is fairly straightforward lower-level CS and some discreet math stuff. About 66% of the students fail it the first time and it seriously weeds out the dead weight.

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Wow.Cool!

Thanks to all of you guys..... After hearing all this stuff and more name crushing testimonials I think i'll switch to Guildhall. :)

I need quality education no matter how hard it is,I don't care.Rather than all show offs and money talks.

Thanks again to all of you!!!!! :D

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Just curious, why did you not speculate about UAT (www.uat.edu)?

I'm a current student there and can definitely see some weak points. But like mentioned before, the idea of a school teaching game programming is very new. And UAT makes it very easy to be part of the revision process.

I have spoken to deans and had teachers come to me regarding changes to the curriculum. I have witnessed numerous improvements.

And the school has an extremely close relationship to the industry.
First our school has had 2 GameCube dev kits for quite some time now. Sure that's not so cool now that the next generation of consoles are coming out, but from what I hear we have several new dev kits on the way.
Second we host TechForum several times a year in which industry people come to give speeches and see what the students are up to. These people are not paid to do this.

I believe I read claim that Guildhall has many industry people working there. I'm not sure that's true (but again, I don't attend there). From what I saw in their advertisements parts of the curriculum were designed by those people. They do not work there.

Like I said, UAT has it's share of problems too. But I don't know why you would not consider them. Is there anything in particular that I should know about? `,:o)

Good luck with your future.

EDIT: Spelling error.

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ohh.Sorry ProgramMax.But this schools are the ones who caught my eyes up.

But it doesnt mean I dont care anymore of the other schools out there(besides i still got 3 years to decide lol).

Any school that anyone would like to recommend that he/she thinks that it would be much better compared to the schools that i've mentioned would be great if anyone would like to share. :D

Thanks! ^_^

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