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does anyone know a good basic language

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Many people tend to start with QBasic. If your looking for perhaps more game orientated basic languages, I would recommend BlizBasic or DarkBasic those tend to be the favorites from what I gather, never have actually used them.

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Original post by Mr_Goodwrench120
Why not just buy a C++ book for beginners, might as well start learning C++.

C# might be easier then C++ and will give a good solid basis of the C++ syntax, not everything but some of the more simple concepts might be simplified.

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Yes, I definitely agree with GDKnight. You need a solid basis and C# would give it to you. My advice is go to the nearest Half-Price Books store, or any bookstore and find a good book for beginners, you dont have to buy it, just read it at the store if you need to. Then go home and find a few tutorials, for example this site: http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html and try some of those exersizes. Then move to more difficult material.

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The C++ worshipping that goes around here is pretty funny. C++ is in no way an ideal. It's not a panacea. It's not even a good language. It became popular because it was [mostly] backward-compatible with C. No, switching to C++ won't make you a better game programmer, or programmer at all for that matter. All it will teach you is that it's possible to make an octopus with a dog, 6 planks and a nailgun.

In fact, if you want to get anything done at all, I'd advise AGAINST learning C++. We really need to do a poll regarding the language of choice/number of completed projects. I'm sure C++ would be at the bottom of the pit.

Pick a language. Learn programming. Program. Python and C# are both very good suggestions. I repeat, they should not be seen as a stepping stone to C++. They are fine by an off themselves.

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Original post by jfclavetteAll it will teach you is that it's possible to make an octopus with a dog, 6 planks and a nailgun.

Really, only 4 planks should be required since the class will inherit the Dog's four legs. :D

I don't think there's much arguing that C++ is the industry standard for game dev, but a lot of us here aren't working in the "industry" and if you're a beginner, you certainly don't need to start with it just because it's what they use. Try out multiple languages with different paradigms, but most of all, just learn how to program. That will be of so much more use to you than finding out how to use multiple-inheritance etc. etc. in C++, especially since you want a "good basic language".

Edit: You may find Haskell and Ruby interesting along with the languages others have already mentioned.

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Original post by guyver23
Another good language to try if your just getting started is Euphoria. You can check it out here: http://www.rapideuphoria.com/

In any case, happy coding. =)


No no no, Euphoria is a bad bad language. It is an unholy cross between C, Python, and Basic. It has inconsistent syntax, and I wasted to many hours of my life on it. I would not recomend that pile of crap to anybody.

Python is far superior and more powerfull. Not to forget, you don't need to register or buy a full version. You just have it, and it works.

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I heard someone up here earlier say Dark Basic. Thats a great language to start with. I used it for 2 years and am just now moving onto c++. You will learn a lot about game concepts like making an ai and such. It's also a commericial worthy language in itself if you take the time to use it.

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There are arguments for an against every programming language. A lot of people use C++(like me, although I use python as well), and a lot of people hate it. That's ok. No one language is perfect. But there are programmers out there still writing in FORTRAN and COBOL, so anyone who wants to trash a programming lang better be able to give a lot of good reasons.

For a beginner, Basic, C++, C#, Python, and Java are good, well-known languages that you can get lots of help with (which, I presume is what you are after) Personally, I dislike Basic, C#, and Java becuase they are type-heavy (look at C++: cout<<"blah"; vs. Java: system.out.println("blah"); and so on) but that's personal taste and has no reflection on the quality of the language.

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Original post by jfclavette
The C++ worshipping that goes around here is pretty funny. C++ is in no way an ideal. It's not a panacea. It's not even a good language. It became popular because it was [mostly] backward-compatible with C. No, switching to C++ won't make you a better game programmer, or programmer at all for that matter. All it will teach you is that it's possible to make an octopus with a dog, 6 planks and a nailgun.
I very much agree with jfcalvette on this statement. It seems like every beginner is told "use c++," you really should look into other languages before choosing. Each language is a tool, specific tools are used in specific areas. No one tool is almighty; the level of abstraction in c++ is quite different from many other languages.

That being said don't start a holywar over which language is better.

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I'm a beginner in this area, but what the heck.

I recommend Java, all the way!!!

But it's really your choice, and you should probably just take a look at smidgens of each language, maybe spend a two minute overview on each one that interests you, count up a list of finalists, and then assign each card in a standard poker deck to any of the languages you put in the 'finalists' area.

No, really, do it. >_<

J/k.

Anyways, learning Java for a little while and then making a quick step up to C++ has worked for me. It's really simplified much of the learning process when it comes to the syntax.

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The best advice I think is to just try multiple lanuages out and use the one you like best. Really since you're a beginner using the most "leet" language or API isn't that important. What's important is learning how to program and any language mentioned in this thread will teach that, even good old QBasic.

Ignore the fanboys and go with the language you like the most.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by jfclavette
The C++ worshipping that goes around here is pretty funny. C++ is in no way an ideal. It's not a panacea. It's not even a good language. It became popular because it was [mostly] backward-compatible with C. No, switching to C++ won't make you a better game programmer, or programmer at all for that matter. All it will teach you is that it's possible to make an octopus with a dog, 6 planks and a nailgun.

In fact, if you want to get anything done at all, I'd advise AGAINST learning C++. We really need to do a poll regarding the language of choice/number of completed projects. I'm sure C++ would be at the bottom of the pit.

Pick a language. Learn programming. Program. Python and C# are both very good suggestions. I repeat, they should not be seen as a stepping stone to C++. They are fine by an off themselves.




You can write C style programs in C++ (and use the C++ OO stuff when nessessary). Any language will teach you basic programming and later one appropriate to the problem space can be selected.


BTW, were you bitten by a C++ as a child to 'hate' it so????

Please name a language that 'is ideal'.

Please name a 'good' language (whatever that means, I suppose it should be something more versatile than C/C++ is...)

Please name a language that if you switch to it WILL "make you a better game programmer, or programmer at all for that matter."

Lets see you make an octupus with any other language ( I suggest Molluska99 ).

Let us know when the poll results are in.


In other words, your attempted argument was not overly usefull.


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Original post by Anonymous Poster
Please name a language that 'is ideal'.

He never did say that any language was ideal.

Quote:

Please name a 'good' language (whatever that means, I suppose it should be something more versatile than C/C++ is...)

He mentioned a few languages that he thought were good in his post.

Quote:

Please name a language that if you switch to it WILL "make you a better game programmer, or programmer at all for that matter."

Again, languages that he think will do this were probably the ones he mentioned in his post.

Quote:

Lets see you make an octupus with any other language ( I suggest Molluska99 ).

I have no idea what this means. I assume it's some reference to his comment about C++ being like an octupus, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

Anyway, I happen to agree with him. There are several languages I would recommend above C++ for most uses (to name a few in no particular order: Scheme, Python, Common Lisp, Ocaml and Haskell).

Now, I have a question to ask you: What languages have you used significantly, other than C++?

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
Any language will teach you basic programming and later one appropriate to the problem space can be selected.

Any language can teach you basic programming, but that doesn't mean they all do so equally well. I think we can all agree that Brainfuck, for instance, would be a bad choice for learning good programming practices. Once that's out of the way, it becomes clear that you've done a rather bad job of actually countering jfclavette point.

All the information available for C++ is actually a mark against it as a first language: the number of bad, outdated examples are simply too numerous. A begining programmer doesn't know enough to avoid the misinformation.

CM

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All the information available for C++ is actually a mark against it as a first language: the number of bad, outdated examples are simply too numerous. A begining programmer doesn't know enough to avoid the misinformation.

CM

I don't think the places beginners get their information from relates to the effectiveness of a language at being good for beginners. Anybody can download a bad Python or FreeBASIC tutorial, for example. Anybody that surfs the net (should) know to take things with a grain of salt, depending on the source of the information. As usual, the best method of gaining accurate information is from buying (or borrowing from the library) up-to-date reference material from a book store. I would assume that's why GameDev has a section devoted to recommended books for beginners.

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Others have done a pretty good job of covering me up. But here goes.

Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
You can write C style programs in C++ (and use the C++ OO stuff when nessessary). Any language will teach you basic programming and later one appropriate to the problem space can be selected.


I didn't recommend C either. C and C++ are both AWFUL begginner languages. Period.

Quote:
BTW, were you bitten by a C++ as a child to 'hate' it so????


I wasn't !!! I did witness a lot of people that did, and that hated programming as a result, because they were introduced to C/C++ first. I mean, seriously, there's no fun in doing bounds checking manually.

Quote:
Please name a language that 'is ideal'.


An ideal language:

1) Does not allow you to trash your memory when it is clearly not your intent.
2) Does not force you to manage your own memory when you don't want to and there are no reason to do so.
3) Does not make absolutely stupid rules that make no sense just for the fun of it. ("Members are constructed in the order they appear in the class declaration, not the order they appear in the initializer list.")

I have an idea, let's convert an integer to a string !


int x = 5
string myString = x.toString()


Right ? Wrong. Bad C++ programmer no cookie. You should do it this way:


int x = 5
string myString
stringstream sstr;
sstr << x;
myString = sstr.str();


Not that bad. Geez...
[/code]

Quote:

Please name a 'good' language (whatever that means, I suppose it should be something more versatile than C/C++ is...)


I don't give a damn about versatility. Application and game developpers do NOT need versatility. Yes yes, C/C++ are awesome, you can write drivers and OSes with them (Not that you can't write an OS in C#). A good language for building applications is a language that lets you quickly, simply and neatly write business/game logic without worrying too much about the metal.

Quote:

Please name a language that if you switch to it WILL "make you a better game programmer, or programmer at all for that matter."


A case could be made for LISP or Scheme, since very few programmers understand the functional paradigm. This is sad since, altough not really suited for application development either, it develops your ability to think "out of the box" of procedural and OO languages. However, my point wasn't that a language can make you a better programmer. My point was that "I'll learn C#, Python or Java in hope that one day I'll be finally able to reach the oh-so-awesome C++" is a bunch of crap.

Quote:
Lets see you make an octupus with any other language ( I suggest Molluska99 ).


The only other language that I see as garbled as C++ (excluding so-called 'esoteric programming languages' like the aforementionned brainfuck) is Managed C++. Oh, and x86 assembly. Man, does x86 assembly suck.

Quote:

Let us know when the poll results are in.


No need for the poll results really. Go to "My announcements and count the C++ projects.

[Edited by - jfclavette on December 17, 2005 11:29:07 PM]

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Yeah, don't listen to those fanboys. I think you should start programming for dos. You should pick a languge like BASIC or PASCAL then move on to Windows programming.

I used to think ASM sucks, but then I did various things with asm (like debugging) and found out that it could be use for many differnt things such as encyption. I also learn how the computer memory works! knowing that,it made pointers and other things in C++ easier to handle and understand.

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Original post by piccahoe
Yeah, don't listen to those fanboys. I think you should start programming for dos. You should pick a languge like BASIC or PASCAL then move on to Windows programming.

Why?

Quote:

I used to think ASM sucks, but then I did various things with asm (like debugging) and found out that it could be use for many differnt things such as encyption.


Assembly languages are Turing complete (like most other languages), there is no reason you wouldn't be able to do those things. You usually don't determine whether a language "sucks" or not based on the applications you could possibly make with it, since most languages are Turing complete.

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