Hi.

I (partially) agree with you. However, the first time I discovered my savegames were stored in "Application Data" I felt a bit annoyed. I like to know where my savegames are stored (I like to keep them on a CD when I finnished the game). Besides, my C:\ partition is quite small so I don't like having a lot of files saved in it (in "Documents and Settings"). The problem doesn't rise for the "My Documents" folder as it is possible to make in point to another location.

This is annoying to have unwanted files in the "My Documents" folder but games are not the first to blame. Microsoft is the first. When you install Windows XP, it automatically creates some folders ("My Pictures", "My Music"...). That makes me angry : I don't want to put my music files in that directory (same for other directory).

So, as everybody thinks it's a good idea to store files and to create directories and the "My Documents" folder, I have found a quick solution : I store my documents in another folder. :p

Just my 2 cents...

How is saving a game state any different to saving a document from MS Word? Should MS Word default to storing documents in its own folder, unless you _explicitly_ move them? Why not? After all, saving a game is just as much a _user-initiated_ event as clicking "File -> Save As...".

I've been handling support for an indie games company for some time now and, believe me, storing saved games in the "Program Files" folder is a Very Bad Thing. Program Files should be reserved for just that: files that the program *requires* in order to run. It should not be a dumping ground for game-state backups or game option settings.

A saved-game *IS* something the user cares about. I frequently get asked where Game X stores its saved game files because -- get this! -- computers can, and do, crash, break down or suffer damage, resulting in a need to reinstall. Sometimes, people just plain *buy a new computer*. How is Auntie Maude supposed to cope with this when Windows XP's default behaviour upon opening the "Program Files" folder is to tell you that you're doing something wrong?

Since "My Documents" isn't actually named "My Documents Reserved Only For Documents I Created Entirely On My Own So Windows Movie Maker's Sample Video File Can Just Piss Off", it seems far more logical to me that this is where saved games should be stored. Ideally, it'd be nice to see a "My Game Documents" folder within "My Documents", with each game creating its own subfolder within that; game options and settings files should go into this folder too, so that you don't have to reset all your key bindings for that complex flight-sim game you love to play.

Please, PLEASE remember that games developers are NOT a target audience for games! Just because YOU folks here like doing things your way, it does not automatically follow that every bugger else does too. The "My Documents" folder concept is merely an evolution of UNIX's own "home" folder. It exists for a damned good reason.

For me, the "My Documents" is the unofficial "Not My Documents" folder. I never ever store something there, I have separate partitions on separate physical drives to organize my data. So, anytime I find something in "My Documents", I know for sure that I never put it there, and that some appllication or game must have created it. That's rather convenient, actually. TBH, I wish that all games would put their savegames into "My Documents". "Application Data" is a real pain because, as it was mentioned, you cannot change its position to a different physical drive or directory, using a different filesystem than NTFS (to be writable by Linux, for instance).

a small note from a system-admin: the application data can get relocated just as my documents (and about any other folder).
i _think_ it's doable with tweakui.

and yes, games should definitely store in Application Data, or in My Documents.

I'd say game settings should get stored in Application Data, and savegames into My Documents. but that is discutable :D

what i'd love is a more simple access from My Documents to "Application Data", so users would at least be aware of that folder (i've backed up all my files, but lost all my e-mails!!!! where are they now, i fresh formated my disk... yes.. they where in the appdata... and are gone now). and then, my documents would ONLY be for user-saves, and not get flooded by stupid other apps. but i think with time, this will all work out. too much programmers still don't know how to work with such stuff.

it's difficult to get rid of old habbits. but my work would be boring if everyone knew how to write an application right :D