• Advertisement
Sign in to follow this  

Alternative leveling-up scheme

This topic is 4421 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

I have thought of different ways to make characters in my RPG gain skills through weapons. So I came up with a solution that seems manageable (for the most part). Let me explain it so it's easier to figure out what my problem is. Each character has a different Experience amount (and therefore a different level) for each type of weapon (swords, axes, spears, bows, etc). Therefore, there is no "overall" level for your character. The more you use a type of weapon, the more exp you will have for that weapon. Switch weapon types and your exp and level will change. Don't use certain types of weapons for long enough and your exp will actually drop (a way for players to "get rusty" with a skill). This system is meant to encourage people to specialize in one job/fighting style, and to avoid frequent "uber-powerful" characters. So far, this system sounds pretty good to me. The problem is, how are basic stats like HP and MP measured? Since your character has different levels for each type of weapon, should they be forced to stick with the same HP and MP throughout, or will it change according to the type of weapon? I'm a little iffy on the second choice, since it would be weird to have your maximum HP and MP suddenly change if you decide to go from using a spear to an ax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement
The idea has been done before in simpler forms that still required normal levelling up, but I could see this working.

You should have a few item slots open to armor/magic items that influence your HP and MP. The armor protects you and thus lends you more hit points while the magical items somehow increase your MP. Have like three or four slots that can either be filled with all magic items (amulets, rings, crowns) or all armor items (helmets, breastplates, gloves, boots, etc).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you change your vocabulary and change "experience amount for each type of weapon" to "skill level", you have a description of a pretty standard skill-based game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RDragon1 is correct, this isn't much a separation from skill based games. Ultima Online is a notable example of a skill based game.

A number of systems handle HP and MP either by stats that grow through use, or through actions that interact with them directly. For the former, HP is based off your strength stat, which grows as you use strength based skills. For the latter, taking so much damage would increase your overall HP by a small amount. Casting X number of spells would increase MP, and so forth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tychon and EvilBean, I like those ideas. I haven't played many PC RPGs (more of a game console man myself) so unfortunatly I'm a bit behind on how skill systems have advanced. If I were to base growth on HP and MP based on equipping items, that leaves me two different ways to apply them.

1. Increase the HP/MP capacity with items and weapon skills

2. Keep the HP and MP the same for everyone, but increase their efficiency with preserving HP/MP with the items and skills. (i.e. with enough use, a spell that used to require 10 MP to use, now only needs 8 MP.)

Right now I favor the first one since it's just less confusing and easier to code in practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
Ultima Online has a similar system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Make the HP and MP skills.

All magic use slowly increases the amount of MP "skill" you have.
All combat increases your HP skill.

Might work if you could play with the MP/HP skill ramp. By then though you are simulating an experience driven system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most RPGs have attributes (strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma in D&D and lots of others that borrowed the system from them). Make these attributes level with use as well. Then base HP and MP off them, probably MP on intelligence or wisdom and HP on constitution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What if you dropped weapon categories and levelled your knowledge with the weapon and armor itself. That is to say, while equipped with a given sword, it modifies your stats along some set, HP+4, MP+1, STR+3. You fight, get the experience, and when you hit the level (100 points?), you keep those stat bonuses when removing the weapon.

As a side effect, it'd encourage players to find every item they can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Apart from what you've said in the first post, Ultima Online also had a few more features:
1) a maximum limit of skill points that a character can have (axes+swords+whatever else <= 400 for example). This prevented the people in the game to become overpowered even if they specialized in a certain skill.
2) Skill locking - you could freeze a certain skill from raising/dropping in order to protect it for decay over time, or for eating up valuable skill points from the maximum total.

As for HP/MP , you can relate them to certain stats such as strength (that could possibly raise from using melee weapons). HP can also be proportional to an average of your melee skills (thus it will remain the same no matter if your skill with a new weapon sucks). MP.. same thing.. use magic , grow powerful. You know better what you want to make of your game/system.

3rd edit:
The Elder Scrolls series uses a different leveling method:
you have 3 groups of skills, that you can choose at the character creation:
a) primary skills (3x)- grow the fastest with use
b) secondary skills (3x)- grow a bit slower with use than primary
c) minor skills (the rest) - grow the slowest

In the series you advance in level when you had 15 skill increases in your primary/secondary skills, plus some minor ones. You don't see the XP you have in a certain skill, but using it for some time (let's say swinging swords for some time) gives you an increase in that skill. Also, after a level-up you are prompted to distribute some points in stats (str,dex,int, etc). And you can grow stats related to the skills that you used to level faster than stats related to the other skills. For example , fighting in melee with swords/axes/whatever gives you an easier increase in strength or constitution, while fighting with bows gives you an easier increase in dexterity. You can increase something else if you wish, but it will cost more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
Just a suggestion, why not fix HP/MP
if you need HP to use a weapon, then make the cost reduce as you speclise in the weapon, and with mp the same thing, the more you speclise with a element the cheaper it cost to cast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see no reason why HP cannot be fixed. Ill reverberate what I have told people in the past.

You can easily model the stats for a fun system by having your weapon and armour proficency as such:

Weapon Proficency:
weapon proficency effects several areas, the controllability of the blade allows you to dodge attacks better, rather then focus on purly offence. In addition, a person more proficiant should hit faster, harder, and more accurately.

Armor Proficency:
this DOES NOT effect your defense. The bigger the armor, the more defense it should give you, independent of stats. What would be a stat, is your knowledge of how to move and work in a certain type of armor.

Strength:
Strength should effect everything, your toughness, size of weapon you can master, and your health. This should grow exponentialy based on your usage, and shrink based on your usage aswell. A person gaining proficency in a lighter weapon and lighter armor should mold to fit a peak at a certain strength proficency level.

A good way to model growth in strength would then be utilize total baggage weight into your leveling alogorithm. This is NOT your battle skill. Weight should lower your moveability, hence your dodging and rate of attack in malee combat should decline. It should also increase your strength based on just about any action taken, including walking (though very little in that regard), as well as swinging.

There should be no reason that getting HIT should raise your HP , i find that absurd and a cheesy way out. The toughness of your skin should not effect things in a noticeable way as far as defense goes, which is all that would happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by Vaipa
Apart from what you've said in the first post, Ultima Online also had a few more features:
1) a maximum limit of skill points that a character can have (axes+swords+whatever else <= 400 for example). This prevented the people in the game to become overpowered even if they specialized in a certain skill.
2) Skill locking - you could freeze a certain skill from raising/dropping in order to protect it for decay over time, or for eating up valuable skill points from the maximum total.

This might be not exactly related to the topic but anyways:

I think that Ultima Onlines skill system is good but ultimately it failed if the goal is to produce realistic and believeable characters (in MMORPGs). The system itself isnt much flawed (except maybe that there is no distinction between combat and other skills) and this might be more of the players fault, meaning the powergaming attitude in playing.

In UO you can have multiple characters which leads to using different characters for different tasks, which itself I despise because then the characters lose their personality and become soulless tools for the player. And when all the other players are playing this way, the players who wish to to use the system like it was meant to use cant compete, cause all the other players characters are planned only for the combat and have used all of their skill points to combat skills.

I think the skill system is meant for simulating the skill at things that the character does a lot, like in real life you get good at things you do a lot. Not like in UO where you have to be grandmaster at anatomy because all the other warriors are too.

I realize that this is more about the peoples attitude in gaming than the mechanics of the skill system but maybe this kind of problems could be prevented or at least players could be encouraged to different kind of playing style by desinging to the system keeping these kind of things in mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have to agree with PaulCesar here.

The general "RPG" idea is absolutely flawed when it comes to magic or "health" levels.

As a living, sentient being, you do not have more "life force" than I do. The only thing that changes is how much damage we might take. So just fix HP to 100.

Going further along PaulCesar's post, your strength can be used as a modifier to how much damage you take in combat, in addition to armor defenses and the like.

For example, you're a human, so you have 100 HP and default to absolutely no armor when nude. So if you get into a knife or sword fight, you're going to end up bleeding and most likely dead. But, if you wrap yourself up in steel, it's going to be a heck of a lot harder for that knife or sword blade getting to your skin and thereby, killing you. However, getting bashed with some manner of blunt instrument (like a mace for example), can still kill you through sheer trauma. The thickest of helmets isn't going to help you if you take a strong enough blow to the head.

So if we, instead, focus on those real-life factors that would determine your fighting abilities, we get a much more involved game. Your "skill level" with your sword is going to affect things like your skill in being able to parry incoming attacks, ability to get past an opponent's parrying, strength of attack and ability to hit critical areas.

Thus, the important factors in the game become your weapon (one with a dull blade will not be able to cut as well as one with a sharp one), your armor (with a rising ability based upon how much you've fought in it, affecting speed, dexterity and the like) and perhaps whatever other factors may come into play in combat (i.e. a kicking ability to knock your opponent off their feet or special attack).

This would likewise work with magic-users as well, rather than having a depleteable amount of "mana" that you can get more of over time, why not make the spells take less mana after time? The idea is not that you are somehow getting "better" at channelling magical forces through your body, you're getting better at casting the spell, therefore, your casting time, mana usage and perhaps mental energy are what is affected by casting spells.

Which brings me to a point that I have put a lot of thought into recently. Why have mana at all? Why not use something instead like, "mental focus". Since you obviously need to concentrate when casting a spell, it would make sense that you could mentally exhaust yourself after a time and need to wait and rest to regain mental clarity before you can cast again. Thus, you could also modify "magic" the same way you modify "health". Rather than getting more of this insubstantial substance, you learn to use it more efficiently.

So studying is going to make you better at focusing concentration without exhausting yourself, and strength or some other manner of skill/stat will allow you to take less damage or perhaps, survive more critical damage over time.

Anyway, that's my two cents, something to chew on,

Vopisk

Edit: I should make mention that this kind of system would be described as "skill-based", since there wouldn't be some manner of overall "Character Level". Things such as stats and the like should be addressed as raising through use, i.e. the more you study, the more intelligent you get, and the more you work out, the stronger you get, likewise for other things.

Also, as all skills require some stat or combination thereof, skill usage should alternatively raise those required stats, albeit slowly and in small steps, since we are using those as factors in performing the ability, it would make sense that the more we use a particular ability, the more we hone that particular stat, just like doing 100 bench-press repititions per day, every day, we're going to get stronger, not just better at doing bench presses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Check out Darklands (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/darklands). It has weapon-specific skills. HP/MP are *not* tied into those skills, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Advertisement