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Yet another MMORPG idea

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First of all: This is not a "how-do-i-create-a-mmorpg" topic so holster your flamethrower. Second of all: I am no MMORPG expert - in fact, the only MMORGP I've played seriously so far is World of Warcraft. Until today, every MMORPG game has had the exactly same basic design: slaying monsters in the world is a very cheap way to gain new equipment and items. As in this World of Warcraft comic: http://www.worldofwar.net/comics/heroesofwow/chapter8/index.php, some monsters even got a very powerful weapon. This fact popped two questions in my head: why didn't the monster use that item in it's fight against you and how did the monster aquire such an item? In my opinion, there are two possible ways for the monster to aquire those items: State of the Art (tm) AI or human interaction. My idea here is human interaction, but you have to wait for the update because I have to go to work now. I'll update the thread as soon as I can.

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Sooo.... you want a human(GM?) to place items on monsters? You know monsters in MMORPGs are randomly spawned. I don't want to be that guy who place those items on monsters.


Quote:

why didn't the monster use that item in it's fight against you

It's hard to use a sword when you have no hands.

[qoute]
how did the monster aquire such an item?
[/quote]
Well, maby the mosnter ate a warrior, and it didn't digested it's sword yet. To make this more realistic, each item found inside a monster will be damaged, and have to be repaired.

"But rabbits can't eat warriors!!!"
RPG rabbits can.

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Well.. It's a little bit more complicated than that :)

The short description is that some player will actually control the monsters in the world: instead of a lvl60 paladin, you have evolved from a lvl1 slime to a lvl60 golden dragon or something like that :)

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Quote:
Original post by Wixner
The short description is that some player will actually control the monsters in the world: instead of a lvl60 paladin, you have evolved from a lvl1 slime to a lvl60 golden dragon or something like that :)


Thats actually a good idea!
It would be fun if you could play as a monster and kill players. :)

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I'm hope you are not talking about faction-war-only gameplay. It didn't work very well on Face of Mankind.

Maybe if instead of having playes controll a monster, make players controll army of monsters in an RTS style gameplay. That way, the guys playing the heroes will still be able to slay the monsters.

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Original post by someboddy
I'm hope you are not talking about faction-war-only gameplay. It didn't work very well on Face of Mankind.

Maybe if instead of having playes controll a monster, make players controll army of monsters in an RTS style gameplay. That way, the guys playing the heroes will still be able to slay the monsters.


Haha.. that was exactly was I was thinking :) expand the genré to a MMORPRTS (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Real Time Strategy Game)

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some more ideas:

make the free accounts to lure the players into the game.
free account players are like ghosts that can possess monsters. Let the monsters have little skill and even some weapons and equipment available to them. Orcs can wear armour, beasts can get skill or special attacks.

A free player can switch possessing monsters when they want to, provided there is another monster nearby. The free players also have levels. A new free-player can not posses the uber dragon while a older player with some kills can possess more powerful monsters. Inversely, the free player levels down each time the monster they control dies or does little damage to players. Monsters can only move in limited areas.

the free accounts also have time limits, say every X mins, the free player gets kicked out of the monster and either telported to another random monster in the world or disconnected.


hopefully the free players controlling the monsters will be make the game a bit more challenging and unpredictable. There is also the chance that the free players would want to try the subscription version to access more skills, etc.

The problem I see here is the AI. You would have some monsters become smart one moment (player controlled )and dumb the next(AI).

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Original post by yapposai
some more ideas:

make the free accounts to lure the players into the game.
free account players are like ghosts that can possess monsters. Let the monsters have little skill and even some weapons and equipment available to them. Orcs can wear armour, beasts can get skill or special attacks.

A free player can switch possessing monsters when they want to, provided there is another monster nearby. The free players also have levels. A new free-player can not posses the uber dragon while a older player with some kills can possess more powerful monsters. Inversely, the free player levels down each time the monster they control dies or does little damage to players. Monsters can only move in limited areas.

the free accounts also have time limits, say every X mins, the free player gets kicked out of the monster and either telported to another random monster in the world or disconnected.


hopefully the free players controlling the monsters will be make the game a bit more challenging and unpredictable. There is also the chance that the free players would want to try the subscription version to access more skills, etc.

The problem I see here is the AI. You would have some monsters become smart one moment (player controlled )and dumb the next(AI).



I have been giving these "free accounts" some thoughts, but since this is just a game concept I haven't spent so much time on it. However, free accounts are good and the ghosts you mention are pretty cool.

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Original post by Wixner
First of all: This is not a "how-do-i-create-a-mmorpg" topic so holster your flamethrower.

Second of all: I am no MMORPG expert - in fact, the only MMORGP I've played seriously so far is World of Warcraft.

Until today, every MMORPG game has had the exactly same basic design: slaying monsters in the world is a very cheap way to gain new equipment and items. As in this World of Warcraft comic: http://www.worldofwar.net/comics/heroesofwow/chapter8/index.php, some monsters even got a very powerful weapon. This fact popped two questions in my head: why didn't the monster use that item in it's fight against you and how did the monster aquire such an item?


This is just a question of game design. Some games generate random loot when a monster is killed, this can lead to the situation you describe. Other games have both monsters and players have an inventory, and depending on what armor/weapon the monster possesses calculate its attack and defense strength. The latter is much more attractive, and makes the orc with the rusted shortsword a lot easier to kill than the same orc with the steel +3 broadsword of lightning.
In Morrowind, when you sell items to a merchant and they are better than what they are wearing, they will often wear that item. And when you kill someone, what you loot is what they were wearing earlier. In games like Diablo, random loot falls to the ground on every kill.
Personally I think it's silly to think of eg. wolves walking around the forest with coins, potions, a helmet and a sword, when you can see they are obviously not equipping those items, nor do they have room to store them. You could just make your game such that animals can be looted for hides, meat, bones, etc. and that you only get weapons, armor, coins, etc. from humanoids.

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Original post by Fidelio66

This is just a question of game design. Some games generate random loot when a monster is killed, this can lead to the situation you describe. Other games have both monsters and players have an inventory, and depending on what armor/weapon the monster possesses calculate its attack and defense strength. The latter is much more attractive, and makes the orc with the rusted shortsword a lot easier to kill than the same orc with the steel +3 broadsword of lightning.
In Morrowind, when you sell items to a merchant and they are better than what they are wearing, they will often wear that item. And when you kill someone, what you loot is what they were wearing earlier. In games like Diablo, random loot falls to the ground on every kill.
Personally I think it's silly to think of eg. wolves walking around the forest with coins, potions, a helmet and a sword, when you can see they are obviously not equipping those items, nor do they have room to store them. You could just make your game such that animals can be looted for hides, meat, bones, etc. and that you only get weapons, armor, coins, etc. from humanoids.



That was a very good point, I had totally forgot those kind of mobs, but as you say: why and how does a wolf carry a "gigantic twohanded sword of brutal ogrish strength"?

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I've always hated that. Again, Maple Story is the quinessential example of what's wrong with video games: Players will spend hours, days or even weeks butchering countless thousands of octopi, looking for that one aqua snowboard that randomly drops. It's absurd.

I prefer to have to manufacture goods using player skills, and then having an economy in place to distribute them. Runescape (I'm a cheapskate, but I might start paying for EVE Online...) has something like this, with players learning to smith gear and then being able to sell it fairly cheaply.

If the community was just a little bit more organized, you could get specialized warriors excorting specialized miners to rare and valuable ores, then have couriers delivering them to smelters to make ingots, then getting those ingots to smiths and then redistributing the weapons among the participants. Alas, you basically have to jack all your skills so you can do it all yourself, which is a bummer, because the mineral fields, smelting furnaces and anvils are ridiculously far apart, and you can only carry a little bit of ore at a time.

My Runescape character can barely swing a sword, and I usually leave my weapons at home to save space, so he's more or less helpless in a fight, unless it's something I can kill with a pick. But I'm actually having a pretty good time with the game.

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See Savage and Allegiance, both are MMOFPRTS's.

Personally, i'd leave the Minions as NPC's and simply allow the RTS player to build up his own army/infastructure to attack living players, this way the Human's have the endless fodder their so fond of, and RTS players have a living thinking unit they have to outwit and kill with their armies.

With Human Minions, there's always the problem they don't follow your orders, or that you get some "Good" skilled units or some "Bad" skilled units of the same type, or those who intentionally try to mess you and everyone else up.

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Please forgive my absence, but I've been pretty busy IRL.
I've got a basic system design up and going in my head now how the "MobMaster" builds his army, levels up and aquire money and equipment.

I think this game would be awesome to play in 2D (due to hardware restrictions) and to override a small city with my army of 60-70 skeletons...

So I was planning to wrap a very simple 2D engine around my 3D Engine Project to demonstrate the basic concept of RTS vs RPG concept.

Hopefully, I can post a link to the "WIP Design Document" within a couple of days...

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Guest Anonymous Poster
They experimented with the "player posesses monsters" thing in the original Everquest a few years back.
Was short lived but quite fun.
Would take an awfaul lot of working out though, and would need to be "fun" for hero and monster players alike.

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Reminds me of a Question my Girlfriend asked when I explained her what an MMORPG was by playing a quick demonstration game of WoW. I was slaying some Wild Boars, when she asked: "...and those boars are also controlled by players?"

Boy, that'd totally SUCK to play Random Boar #4295 on Realm XYZXYZ ... :) And Paying 13 Euros a Month for that. But yes, consider the role play possibilities... epic!



... on another notion, I think human owned mobs would be a good idea, but moreso, lootable players would be more important (just a random drop chance that your player loses one of their unbound items in case of PvP death, for example). Mobs would then be there to gather ressources, and you'd slay heavily armed players to get a hold of their stuff.

Batteries and balance sold separately.

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Whomever decides to play the game as a MobMaster has the same kind of experience-system as the "regular" - when your level increases to, let's say, 10, you will gain more MobPoints for which you can buy new Mobs to a level up to 10. wheter it is 10 level 1 boars or 1 level 10 skeleton.

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Hmm I like this idea :) But wouldn't it be very unbalanced? Take your 60-70 skeletons to a town that at this time of the day doesn't have many players online. This sucks. You'd need some limits: Figure out the combined power of all online players, and the combined power of all attacking mobs, and don't let the mobs exceed a power threshold.

One more thing: base building? I mean, they ARE playing an RTS :)
And it would be cool to gather a party to destroy that new spider lair. Hmm...but then the RTS players would lose their armies very quickly. What about if they had "classes" to chose from, like races, and stick to that? Even when you lose your base, you have many more races to chose from. Like, keeping it more light-weight so the player doesn't quit the game when his base is over-run.

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Original post by Jotaf
Hmm I like this idea :) But wouldn't it be very unbalanced? Take your 60-70 skeletons to a town that at this time of the day doesn't have many players online. This sucks. You'd need some limits: Figure out the combined power of all online players, and the combined power of all attacking mobs, and don't let the mobs exceed a power threshold.

One more thing: base building? I mean, they ARE playing an RTS :)
And it would be cool to gather a party to destroy that new spider lair. Hmm...but then the RTS players would lose their armies very quickly. What about if they had "classes" to chose from, like races, and stick to that? Even when you lose your base, you have many more races to chose from. Like, keeping it more light-weight so the player doesn't quit the game when his base is over-run.


Well.. I can only take my 60-70 skeletons if i'm a lvl40+ MobMaster and that results low-level skeletons. Either 10 strong skeletons, 20 not-weak skeletons or 60 weak skeletons...

I've had some thoughts about "base-building" for the Mob side, but my primary idea is to figure out this MobMaster system.

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Quote:
Original post by Wixner
Quote:
Original post by Jotaf
Hmm I like this idea :) But wouldn't it be very unbalanced? Take your 60-70 skeletons to a town that at this time of the day doesn't have many players online. This sucks. You'd need some limits: Figure out the combined power of all online players, and the combined power of all attacking mobs, and don't let the mobs exceed a power threshold.

One more thing: base building? I mean, they ARE playing an RTS :)
And it would be cool to gather a party to destroy that new spider lair. Hmm...but then the RTS players would lose their armies very quickly. What about if they had "classes" to chose from, like races, and stick to that? Even when you lose your base, you have many more races to chose from. Like, keeping it more light-weight so the player doesn't quit the game when his base is over-run.


Well.. I can only take my 60-70 skeletons if i'm a lvl40+ MobMaster and that results low-level skeletons. Either 10 strong skeletons, 20 not-weak skeletons or 60 weak skeletons...

I've had some thoughts about "base-building" for the Mob side, but my primary idea is to figure out this MobMaster system.


Please don't call them MobMasters in-game :P

I agree, but I was talking about the case when a town is deserted or has only 2 or 3 players that are not able to defend it. It wouldn't be fun for the other players to find out that their city was conquered over-night.

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Original post by Jotaf
Please don't call them MobMasters in-game :P

I agree, but I was talking about the case when a town is deserted or has only 2 or 3 players that are not able to defend it. It wouldn't be fun for the other players to find out that their city was conquered over-night.


Yeah, there are some problems like that :)
And no need to worry, they're just called MobMasters in the design document until i've got another name ;)

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