One aspect of medieval warfare and economy that is rarly seen in games is that of supply lines. Curently in the games you can harvest resources in one location (say near you main base) and then take 1 unit over near the enemy base and start a new base useing the resources located in your main base.
If you made it so that resources need to be transported (automaticaly?) to the building that was useing them (for construation of the building or the production of a unit), this could add a bit more strategy to the game. Having supply lines to individual units would get too fiddely to manage (even if done automaticaly) so individual units weould not have this (but you may be ok to impliment it for hero units).
Another aspect that might work well in a fanatasy setting is to have combined arms. This would allow a group of units to fight with complimentary weapons. An example would be that units with long weapons (pikes, etc) would be behind the units with shorter reach weapons so that all of them could attack (where as if the short reach weapon units were in the back then they couldn't attack). This is what makes flanking a squad effective as not all the troops could attack.
RTS Needs
Quote:Original post by Veovis
There's an idea I've been toying with; that you don't simply click a button on a building to generate units, but instead you specify roles for your existing units. That's worded poorly, let me explain.
You start the game with a few specialized Builders, who can make and repair structures. They make a House. The House is the only structure which can generate units, they generate simple Citizens. Citizens require lodging though, so if you want more than a few Citizens, you'll have to build more Houses to support them. Citizens (and all your units) also require food, so you build a Farm. But the farm won't produce anything until you assign a Citizen to it, at which point that unit become a specialized Farmer. You also want an army, so you build a Barracks. You can then send groups of Citizens inside the Barracks to train, and out come your new Soldiers.
Sounds like Battle Realms.
Quote:Original post by Edtharan
One aspect of medieval warfare and economy that is rarly seen in games is that of supply lines. Curently in the games you can harvest resources in one location (say near you main base) and then take 1 unit over near the enemy base and start a new base useing the resources located in your main base.
If you made it so that resources need to be transported (automaticaly?) to the building that was useing them (for construation of the building or the production of a unit), this could add a bit more strategy to the game. Having supply lines to individual units would get too fiddely to manage (even if done automaticaly) so individual units weould not have this (but you may be ok to impliment it for hero units).
Another aspect that might work well in a fanatasy setting is to have combined arms. This would allow a group of units to fight with complimentary weapons. An example would be that units with long weapons (pikes, etc) would be behind the units with shorter reach weapons so that all of them could attack (where as if the short reach weapon units were in the back then they couldn't attack). This is what makes flanking a squad effective as not all the troops could attack.
I like this idea, I'd especially like the ability to take a small commando unit, maybe some archers or light calvarly and disrupt supply lines, causing the enemies front line troops to be weakened in the process. Above all make sure the AI is good and that the player has control of the units at all times. It's extremely frustrating when your units do suicidal things over and over again (Like medics charging into a major battle because they're faster then the other troops and can get to the waypoint first) You could even make the supply lines issue part of the game mechanics, that is certain factions are more reliant on supplies from the home base while others can forage, or have it where the higher up in the tech tree you are, the more important it is to protect your supply lines.
Author
Wow, thanks guys! Ton of responses so far, and all of them have given me a little something to think about. A lot of people named off some games I have yet to play, but it seems they are worth a look. Currently, I am getting my team to play through some different games to get a feel for what we do and don't like.
@Ezbez - I definitely have to agree on storys being more in-depth in an RTS. Instead of deciding to make a game and add story in after, we are going through and creating our world before, and adding the game to the story.
@Lightblade - Agreed there too. A games success comes from the freshness, regrettably that is difficult nowadays. Everything seems like a re-hash, just like you said with WC and D&D. We hope to go through and instead of creating entirely original ideas (which we found is nigh impossible), find new ways to either change or implement other ideas.
@Jpetrie - I hear you man. The less skinny tree-huggers and fat ale-drinkers there are, the better. Not to say what Tolkien and eventually D&D started isn't good, I love em both. As I said to lightblade, we want to change things up a bit, even if it's not completely new.
@Veovis - You read me like a book. I disagree with the current style of build a unit from scratch. First it makes the game less personal. If I'm going to lead an army against evil (or good), I want to feel like I'm guiding friends and family, not some random guy that I could care less about. The first step to this, I think, is to give them a personal life. Someone else mentioned that this was how Settlers plays and also Battle Realms, so I guess I'll be picking them up sometime and giving them a whirl!
@Iron Chef - I've seen your name in almost every post, heh. Yeah, Stronghold had it going for itself, til you attack a castle! My brother used to kick our butts at that all the time, no questions asked, using horse archers :-/. I do like the economy idea from it though, it is a little more realistic. I may have played Majesty, but I don't remember, it seems to ring a bell though.
@Edtharan - Supply lines are a great idea! Letting your army tromp around w/out having to feed em doesn't make sense to me. You mentioned a supply line for one unit being a little un-workable, which I agree with, so instead of doing single units, like most RTS', I think a Total War approach would work. Since you control groups of units as one unit, it would make more sense, and it would be feasible to put a supply line into the game for those groups.
@Ezbez - I definitely have to agree on storys being more in-depth in an RTS. Instead of deciding to make a game and add story in after, we are going through and creating our world before, and adding the game to the story.
@Lightblade - Agreed there too. A games success comes from the freshness, regrettably that is difficult nowadays. Everything seems like a re-hash, just like you said with WC and D&D. We hope to go through and instead of creating entirely original ideas (which we found is nigh impossible), find new ways to either change or implement other ideas.
@Jpetrie - I hear you man. The less skinny tree-huggers and fat ale-drinkers there are, the better. Not to say what Tolkien and eventually D&D started isn't good, I love em both. As I said to lightblade, we want to change things up a bit, even if it's not completely new.
@Veovis - You read me like a book. I disagree with the current style of build a unit from scratch. First it makes the game less personal. If I'm going to lead an army against evil (or good), I want to feel like I'm guiding friends and family, not some random guy that I could care less about. The first step to this, I think, is to give them a personal life. Someone else mentioned that this was how Settlers plays and also Battle Realms, so I guess I'll be picking them up sometime and giving them a whirl!
@Iron Chef - I've seen your name in almost every post, heh. Yeah, Stronghold had it going for itself, til you attack a castle! My brother used to kick our butts at that all the time, no questions asked, using horse archers :-/. I do like the economy idea from it though, it is a little more realistic. I may have played Majesty, but I don't remember, it seems to ring a bell though.
@Edtharan - Supply lines are a great idea! Letting your army tromp around w/out having to feed em doesn't make sense to me. You mentioned a supply line for one unit being a little un-workable, which I agree with, so instead of doing single units, like most RTS', I think a Total War approach would work. Since you control groups of units as one unit, it would make more sense, and it would be feasible to put a supply line into the game for those groups.
Quote:Original post by lightblade
All games need to be original in order to be successful...
None of the sequel of a game are more successful than it's predecessor.
Originality comes from the world itself, including artwork and design.
For example, spiders had appeared in Fantasy RPG over and over again. Ok! We get it! Spiders are disgusting vermins, can't we use some other disgusting vermins other than spiders? Like cockroaches and centipedes or maybe giant cockroaches and centipedes?
I seriously beg to differ.
Quote:Original post by Takaloy
I seriously beg to differ.
Agreed. I know plenty of sequels that were more successful then the original title. I think that saying all unoriginal games are bound to failure is a pretty broad statement. Success and unoriginality aren't mutually exclusive...
edit: changed my comparison to be more accurate.
Supply lines...
Fantasy RTS...
Mana!
Your supply lines could be access to your mana-grid.
Armies cut off from your mana-grid would have extremely slow mana regeneration. (they would only be able to draw limited amounts of mana from the local area, and they would be competing for this mana with all of the other local units).
Armies that go out to attack either have to carry their mana with them, or keep a supply line to their base secure and have mana flow through it.
Toss in different types of mana, which different types of units consume...
Even building/upgrading units might require mana, possibly of a different kind.
Mana would flow along ley-lines. Supplying a base with the mana it needs would either require sending mana-storage units there (the caravan solution) or setting up a ley-line with enough capacity to feed the base.
Fantasy RTS...
Mana!
Your supply lines could be access to your mana-grid.
Armies cut off from your mana-grid would have extremely slow mana regeneration. (they would only be able to draw limited amounts of mana from the local area, and they would be competing for this mana with all of the other local units).
Armies that go out to attack either have to carry their mana with them, or keep a supply line to their base secure and have mana flow through it.
Toss in different types of mana, which different types of units consume...
Even building/upgrading units might require mana, possibly of a different kind.
Mana would flow along ley-lines. Supplying a base with the mana it needs would either require sending mana-storage units there (the caravan solution) or setting up a ley-line with enough capacity to feed the base.
a simple implementation of supply lines for troops would borrow from Dune or Command and Conquer.
Instead of harvesters mining spice or minerals you would have supply wagons(or whatever fit your theme) supplying up at your base and then trucking the supplies to your troops. Like the harvesters you would want to automate it to a degree.
A simple breakdown of an implementation would be:
_the ability to attach units to the supply wagon( as guards)
_assign units as "captains" and have the supply wagon automatically hunt down and resupply any captain unit as well as his group.
_units must keep a list of their ammo, and perhaps start to fire more slowly or lose morale as the ammo is closer to exhaustion, culminating in units retreating back to base or until resupplied.
_a morale system.
_a units ability to resupply at a resource station without a supply wagon.
level 2 implementation:
_unique supply stations to shorten supply lines.
_one time use special troop abilities that must be recharged by resupplying.
_the ability to capture enemy supply wagons and absorb the resources.
_elite type units able to use weapon and ammos of the defeated enemy, to simulate the ability to act behind enemy lines and be self-maintaining.
properly implemented these changes should lean your rts to a more defensive posture. the TANK RUSH strategy would have to be quickly decisive in order to be viable, and the likely-hood of siege would be increased.
as an invader moved towards an enemy base his supply lines would naturally stretch and the defenders would shorten. this would simulate a limited form of entrenchment, and would more closely model actual combat.
Would it be fun? That's the more important question but it definitely has possibilities.
Instead of harvesters mining spice or minerals you would have supply wagons(or whatever fit your theme) supplying up at your base and then trucking the supplies to your troops. Like the harvesters you would want to automate it to a degree.
A simple breakdown of an implementation would be:
_the ability to attach units to the supply wagon( as guards)
_assign units as "captains" and have the supply wagon automatically hunt down and resupply any captain unit as well as his group.
_units must keep a list of their ammo, and perhaps start to fire more slowly or lose morale as the ammo is closer to exhaustion, culminating in units retreating back to base or until resupplied.
_a morale system.
_a units ability to resupply at a resource station without a supply wagon.
level 2 implementation:
_unique supply stations to shorten supply lines.
_one time use special troop abilities that must be recharged by resupplying.
_the ability to capture enemy supply wagons and absorb the resources.
_elite type units able to use weapon and ammos of the defeated enemy, to simulate the ability to act behind enemy lines and be self-maintaining.
properly implemented these changes should lean your rts to a more defensive posture. the TANK RUSH strategy would have to be quickly decisive in order to be viable, and the likely-hood of siege would be increased.
as an invader moved towards an enemy base his supply lines would naturally stretch and the defenders would shorten. this would simulate a limited form of entrenchment, and would more closely model actual combat.
Would it be fun? That's the more important question but it definitely has possibilities.
probably the whole idea of supply resources is getting kind of old... something novel will be interesting. back of my mind, something along the lines of today's economics as compared to the medieval's "supply line system".
if you are aiming for original, do not have elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, wizards/sorcerors, warriors, or rogues. Heck, if you want an "original" idea (gad I hope someone hasn't done this already) take a quote by one of the big SF authors (I believe it was Clarke) "Really advanced technology would be indecipherable from magic" I think depending on what way you go with this, you may get something totally unique.
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