The Skill Web

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25 comments, last by C-Junkie 22 years, 7 months ago
Not meaning to get off topic here (yeah right ) but how exactly do you wish to get a secure AI thing happening on remote machines? That is a fair bit to ask from a client

Sounds interesting tho, but I reckon that the walk skill is a bit far fetched. I hope you don''t force the player to learn how to walk

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
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quote:Original post by C-Junkie
I have not tried actually coding this. (hypocrite?) I''m not sure exactly how to do it. My first idea would have been a class for each skill...but you''ll easily end up with 100+ classes. If anyone has actually used this system, would you mind sharing how you implemented it?


Okay, just for the record...I haven''t coded it yet, nor has the programmer on my team. (Well, technically, it''s not my team, but that''s beside the point... ) But anyway, here goes:

Using a class for each possible skill (if I understand you right) is beyond overkill. I''m guessing you mean a character class for each skill, like fighter, wizard, and all those other generic character classes. (If I''m wrong, you can ignore the rest of this.) First, I classified my skills as Primary, Minor, and Secondary skills. The player is free to choose from any primary skills, up to a certain level. Once that level is reached, the class is determined based on the two highest primary skills, and then they are given access to skills in their class tree at x skill points, and outside their class at y skill points. That still gave something like 45 classes, which is IMO too many for streamlining the effect--you don''t want your player to get bogged down in classes to keep them from the story. So what I did was make a chart of all the possible 2-primary-skill combinations possible, and defined classes from those, allowing them to overlap. This got my class list down to around 10. Of course, you may have more, if you were going to have 100+ classes rather than my 45, but maybe that will help you (or any other designers working on a system like that).

Gee, I never realized I could be that long-winded....
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WNDCLASSEX Reality;
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Reality.lpfnWndProc=ComputerGames;
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RegisterClassEx(&Reality);


Unable to register Reality...what''s wrong?
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Dan Upton
Lead Designer
WolfHeart Software
WNDCLASSEX Reality;......Reality.lpfnWndProc=ComputerGames;......RegisterClassEx(&Reality);Unable to register Reality...what's wrong?---------Dan Uptonhttp://0to1.orghttp://www20.brinkster.com/draqza
quote:Original post by dwarfsoft

Not meaning to get off topic here (yeah right ) but how exactly do you wish to get a secure AI thing happening on remote machines? That is a fair bit to ask from a client

Sounds interesting tho, but I reckon that the walk skill is a bit far fetched. I hope you don''t force the player to learn how to walk


You misunderstood, the AI would NOT be secure from hacks. But it doesn''t have to be. The AI is only for choosing how to go from the current state and perform the action the user indicated - perhaps they could hack it, but why would you want to? If such a simple thing can be improved enough to justify a hack, why wasn''t it improved during testing or in a patch?

And yes you DO have to learn to walk. It ain''t a new Idea... ever heard of DAWN, dwarfsoft? You get BORN in that game (sortof). Or so they say, they haven''t released the beta yet.

draqza: I was refering to C++ classes. I decided now that a simple AI and some data just for AI to figure out what the skill does would do the trick rather than a (C++) class for each skill. As for your idea, I''m attempting to get rid of character classes entirely. Your ''class'' can be whatever you want to call it. A wizard might have some rusty sword skills that he could revive with a few days practice.

wait...Perhaps I forgot to mention earlier that unused skills have to "degrade". I suppose that there should be 2 variables, ''experience'' and ''useskill''. (at least this is what I''m calling them) experience is the total and is usually the same a useskill, but the wizard above would have high experience for sword use, but low useskill. Basically, it would cause the useskill variable to rise mroe rapidly if it were lower than experience.

I seem to really like these long posts.
quote:
draqza: I was refering to C++ classes. I decided now that a simple AI and some data just for AI to figure out what the skill does would do the trick rather than a (C++) class for each skill. As for your idea, I''m attempting to get rid of character classes entirely. Your ''class'' can be whatever you want to call it. A wizard might have some rusty sword skills that he could revive with a few days practice.


Ohhh..I see. Oops. I applaud your attempt to do away with classes entirely, but I think that it may end up that players, who are more familiar with the idea of classes, will frame their character into a class anyway.

Also, "reviving" skills is possible under my system as well, to the end that you say a wizard with rusty sword skills could revive it with practice. After all, said wizard would probably have to train a little harder to remember those sword skills than he would to remember a spell skill; under my system, those "rusty" skills cost more skill points to develop than those he''s familiar with (his main "class" spells).
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I decided my .sig has taken up enough room on this page...
WNDCLASSEX Reality;......Reality.lpfnWndProc=ComputerGames;......RegisterClassEx(&Reality);Unable to register Reality...what's wrong?---------Dan Uptonhttp://0to1.orghttp://www20.brinkster.com/draqza
*huge nuclear-powered superman-class ub3rBUMP*

Throw some good old ideas into the cycle again, eh?

I''m sure some people are wondering where the hell i went off to...
Skill trees that a pure tree hierarchy tend to reinforce specialization.

combat
-sword
--stab
--etc

-mace
-spear

Generally it turns out to be more cost efficient to purchase skills at the most detailed level (either from lower cost or greater effect). The player tends to invest more points in fewer skills.


Games where a skill depends on multiple parents (and influences multiple children) tend to reinforce spreading out the skill points and broader capabilities. At the worst, all high level characters start to look alike.

One isn''t better or more correct than the other, it depends on teh game you''re making. Just some thoughts...
As far as I understood, this whole post was one huge misunderstanding! Half of the posts (and I''ve read them all) begin with: "No, no, no! You did not get what I meant in the post three posts before that one, not 2 post after the other one I made when guy X stated that guy Z was wrong about..." and so on.

Maybe some nice person would like to sum up all the good ideas and post a new thread, so we can start anew (and hopefully reach a practical conclusion, good enough for the FoRPGpedia; and i''m personally interested in such solution, as currently i''m working on the Doc too)?

Boby Dimitrov
boby@shararagames.com
Sharara Games Team
Boby Dimitrovhttp://forums.rpgbg.netBulgarian RPG Community

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