Horror game bosses question
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Well I will say that you do make sense. I will continue taking my time to put out a more realistic survival horror game. I just want the players to realize that this game will be a true horror survival game, and not a cake walk like resident evil 2 was and still is. I just have to figure out what i am going to do with the monsters and how i can play them in totally. As too the bosses I will definitly take the time to work things out. Because like you said, it should be realistic. And I hope in the end that I can achieve that goal. And thanks for your input..
I like this idea and, I would also like it that, if you manage to wound it at some point(s) in the game while it's chasing you and it decides it needs to go back to it's lair, or whatever, to heal, then you should be able to track it to wherever it's resting and finish it off if you can.
it's a good idea. but honestly, alot of people thought of it. but honestly, no one could perfect it.
as I mentioned before (above) There must be reasons how the monster stop chasing you. What are the key points which make a boss not want to chase you?
Because alot of people are engross in making the monster chase the person, the only thing in alot of people's mind is having the monster chase, chase, kill, kill. Thus, forgetting the nature of how the monster should act in different situation.
MY monster is blind. That was the key element. So If you want to avoid conflict, then yes, against a blind monster, any idiot would know what to do. But that is not the whole thing behind the monster. Think with an end in mind. Play yourself as the role of the monster, doing your best to perfect it's nature and find out how it can find it's victims if it knew they were hidding silently. Or is there an additional hidden ability you'd give the creature that allows it to detect it's silent victims? I know I have, and doing everything to perfect your monsters/bosses and the way it works, will give you the ability to figure out how to beat this creatures, thus, perhaps even end up thinking of a new form of gameplay along the way.
To me, horror games, it's all about strategies.
In all RE games, the bosses has never been difficult. What makes the game hard is the lack of ammo and durablility of enemies, and yet pros could finish it in an instant.
Tyrant, is always about running a certain degree in a one -one combat to avoid it's perfect swing.
X, it's just running away.
Nemesis, is also about running away, or purely fighting with maximum fire power.
Seriously if Nemesis was that brilliant a creature, I believe it could have been made better, since Umbrella wants to make it a bio weapon.
you have got to know the nature of your monster. You have to imagine yourself in the creatures shoes. How can you perfect it's nature as this type pf beast. Then you put it up against your main character, and in his shoes, figure out what he would do in tight situations, low ammo situation, pure fighting situations. there, new gizmos of gameplay will be formed. I did all that, the results stun me. But because I am not a developer, designer, can a disc support what I have to offer? Who knows. but that aside, this is a method I use to help myself. it ain't perfect, but the results it provide is much better.
as I mentioned before (above) There must be reasons how the monster stop chasing you. What are the key points which make a boss not want to chase you?
Because alot of people are engross in making the monster chase the person, the only thing in alot of people's mind is having the monster chase, chase, kill, kill. Thus, forgetting the nature of how the monster should act in different situation.
MY monster is blind. That was the key element. So If you want to avoid conflict, then yes, against a blind monster, any idiot would know what to do. But that is not the whole thing behind the monster. Think with an end in mind. Play yourself as the role of the monster, doing your best to perfect it's nature and find out how it can find it's victims if it knew they were hidding silently. Or is there an additional hidden ability you'd give the creature that allows it to detect it's silent victims? I know I have, and doing everything to perfect your monsters/bosses and the way it works, will give you the ability to figure out how to beat this creatures, thus, perhaps even end up thinking of a new form of gameplay along the way.
To me, horror games, it's all about strategies.
In all RE games, the bosses has never been difficult. What makes the game hard is the lack of ammo and durablility of enemies, and yet pros could finish it in an instant.
Tyrant, is always about running a certain degree in a one -one combat to avoid it's perfect swing.
X, it's just running away.
Nemesis, is also about running away, or purely fighting with maximum fire power.
Seriously if Nemesis was that brilliant a creature, I believe it could have been made better, since Umbrella wants to make it a bio weapon.
you have got to know the nature of your monster. You have to imagine yourself in the creatures shoes. How can you perfect it's nature as this type pf beast. Then you put it up against your main character, and in his shoes, figure out what he would do in tight situations, low ammo situation, pure fighting situations. there, new gizmos of gameplay will be formed. I did all that, the results stun me. But because I am not a developer, designer, can a disc support what I have to offer? Who knows. but that aside, this is a method I use to help myself. it ain't perfect, but the results it provide is much better.
Two games that I really enjoy that feature this sort of thing is Prince of Persia: Warrior Within and Clocktower.
Prince of Persia had the dahaka, that would chase you relentlessly until you could get to a safe place. The fact that it was invincible made it so that you HAD to run, with perfectly timed maneouvering, which for me, was the best thing about the entire game. The chase sequences often involved the Dahaka bursting through walls and generally destroying the scenery, but since it was a very linear game, you didn't often have to return to these destroyed areas.
Clocktower is an old SNES survival horror game, where you played this little girl who was searching a house whilst being chased by a maniacal killer. In the game you were completely defenseless, you had no weapons or anything, and you had to run and hide and use the scenery to stop the boss. Eventually though he would pop up in other rooms and start the chase again. It is easily the scariest game I have ever played, it even had a panic button!
Prince of Persia had the dahaka, that would chase you relentlessly until you could get to a safe place. The fact that it was invincible made it so that you HAD to run, with perfectly timed maneouvering, which for me, was the best thing about the entire game. The chase sequences often involved the Dahaka bursting through walls and generally destroying the scenery, but since it was a very linear game, you didn't often have to return to these destroyed areas.
Clocktower is an old SNES survival horror game, where you played this little girl who was searching a house whilst being chased by a maniacal killer. In the game you were completely defenseless, you had no weapons or anything, and you had to run and hide and use the scenery to stop the boss. Eventually though he would pop up in other rooms and start the chase again. It is easily the scariest game I have ever played, it even had a panic button!
it is like No One Lives Forever 2.
you have a boss in that game that does right the same. and it is frightning so, good idea.
i recommend doing that.
you have a boss in that game that does right the same. and it is frightning so, good idea.
i recommend doing that.
I reckon the best type of boss for a horror game would be the Far-Cry style monsters, but in a more significant role. They punish you if you ignore them, they kill you extremely quickly, they chase you very well, they work together, some are quite fast and in some cases even partially invisible, they appear out of nowhere and scare the living shit out of you, they're neutral and they're strong but beatable. It adds a sense of reality to the game in that if you don't use stealth at least part of the game you'll eventually lose it. If you don't use heavy weapons and be loud in other parts of the game you'll lose it. It all adds to the balance of the game, they're stronger than you, but it doesn't necessarily mean you can't beat them.
As for the breaking through things, which is very weakly in relation to the Far-Cry monsters being able to jump far and high to get to you when you think you're in a safe position, that's a good idea. Just make some walls destroyable for the monster etc. I don't mean in a non-realistic matter, like some time through the game the monster smashes through a 10 metre thick titanium wall, and the next a paper-bark wall is holding it back. Just make it balanced, so that sometimes the monster can get stuck, not permanently, but long enough for you to escape it. Maybe have a maximum distance it can follow you at, as well as time. You can also incorporate other influences into the equation, for example, if it's chasing you, then all of a sudden there's another 4 or 5 monsters you're fighting, the game checks to see if the boss is in view, and if it's not, the boss disappears.
That way, when the player is finished killing these other 6 or 7 monsters as quickly as they can out of fear that the other big bastard behind them is just waiting for a clear shot to fist their head off, they turn around and it's gone, creating a sense of curiosity and fear. Of course that would be a very technical attribute because if there's no where for the boss to go and it disappears, making it obvious that the game forced its disappearance, it'll make the player dislike the game.
That's 100% based off 4 or 5 hours of FarCry play-time tonight, I'm not a fan of copying other games, but I have to say that FarCry has the best gameplay experience I personally have ever had, and would recommend you to at least try to use some of their AI techniques.
As for the breaking through things, which is very weakly in relation to the Far-Cry monsters being able to jump far and high to get to you when you think you're in a safe position, that's a good idea. Just make some walls destroyable for the monster etc. I don't mean in a non-realistic matter, like some time through the game the monster smashes through a 10 metre thick titanium wall, and the next a paper-bark wall is holding it back. Just make it balanced, so that sometimes the monster can get stuck, not permanently, but long enough for you to escape it. Maybe have a maximum distance it can follow you at, as well as time. You can also incorporate other influences into the equation, for example, if it's chasing you, then all of a sudden there's another 4 or 5 monsters you're fighting, the game checks to see if the boss is in view, and if it's not, the boss disappears.
That way, when the player is finished killing these other 6 or 7 monsters as quickly as they can out of fear that the other big bastard behind them is just waiting for a clear shot to fist their head off, they turn around and it's gone, creating a sense of curiosity and fear. Of course that would be a very technical attribute because if there's no where for the boss to go and it disappears, making it obvious that the game forced its disappearance, it'll make the player dislike the game.
That's 100% based off 4 or 5 hours of FarCry play-time tonight, I'm not a fan of copying other games, but I have to say that FarCry has the best gameplay experience I personally have ever had, and would recommend you to at least try to use some of their AI techniques.
In reality, you would not have to worry about other monsters. Think about shelob from lotr or other big mean monsters. First of all, all the smaller monsters stear clear of bosses lair and surroundings. Second, when they hear that megalith coming, they run faster than the pc. Therefore it would be sensical that if the boss is on your tail, you won't see any other monsters. This allows the pc to concentrate on the boss. As far as hiding and the like, you can have area's built right for some relief time.
Example: you are running through the grouds of a compound and come to a wooden warehouse. The first time, the pc runs into the warehouse and slams the door only to have the monster break down the door and surrounding wall to get at the pc. Now the pc is more aware so he runs out of the warehouse towards the main building, which is made of glass and steel. He runs through the steel door and closes it, thinking he is safe.
This lasts only a second, as he sees the monster running towards the window and not slowing down. He barely has time to start sprinting down the corridoor before it smashes through the glass and gallops after him.
Maybe you could have a guard crouching behind a desk (like this is the entry so there is a guard station) and the spider (thats what ive been thinking of as the boss) kills him with one of its legs almost without stopping and tosses his corpse off screen.
The pc spots a vent and rushes to it, barely wrenching it off and getting inside before the spider lashes its razor sharp appendages right where he had been in the cooridoor. Now at this point, the spider has no way of pursuing the character, and we give him a minute to cool off and patch up before throwing some mobs at him. He goes through a section of the building, killing smaller monsters along the way, and comes to a larger hallway. By this point he has forgotten or momentarily put the spider to the back of his mind. So we drop it on him from above and resume the chase.
Obviously this would not go on too long nor through too many scenes as it would get tedious, but it would be long enough that the player would be significantly be shaken. Also, perhaps the last scene where he kills the spider it could be that he uses something from the area to kill the spider, or an area where he has more of an advantage so he could actually kill it, since he can't kill it during the chase.
Example: you are running through the grouds of a compound and come to a wooden warehouse. The first time, the pc runs into the warehouse and slams the door only to have the monster break down the door and surrounding wall to get at the pc. Now the pc is more aware so he runs out of the warehouse towards the main building, which is made of glass and steel. He runs through the steel door and closes it, thinking he is safe.
This lasts only a second, as he sees the monster running towards the window and not slowing down. He barely has time to start sprinting down the corridoor before it smashes through the glass and gallops after him.
Maybe you could have a guard crouching behind a desk (like this is the entry so there is a guard station) and the spider (thats what ive been thinking of as the boss) kills him with one of its legs almost without stopping and tosses his corpse off screen.
The pc spots a vent and rushes to it, barely wrenching it off and getting inside before the spider lashes its razor sharp appendages right where he had been in the cooridoor. Now at this point, the spider has no way of pursuing the character, and we give him a minute to cool off and patch up before throwing some mobs at him. He goes through a section of the building, killing smaller monsters along the way, and comes to a larger hallway. By this point he has forgotten or momentarily put the spider to the back of his mind. So we drop it on him from above and resume the chase.
Obviously this would not go on too long nor through too many scenes as it would get tedious, but it would be long enough that the player would be significantly be shaken. Also, perhaps the last scene where he kills the spider it could be that he uses something from the area to kill the spider, or an area where he has more of an advantage so he could actually kill it, since he can't kill it during the chase.
true. however, most games are already applying that system. no monster go near boss area, or etc, as you have mentioned. Seriously, I find it...well, good, but not realistic enough and doesn't truly bring out the real life challenge.
Games are meant for entertainment. but if they want to make it realistic, they'll have to make it damn realistic...in terms of gameplay I mean. Mainly horror as well. sometimes it's cool to have a monster chasing you everywhere and then some idiotic creture stands in your way through the chase, avoid it and perhaps the boss might stop to kill the following creature and then give chase, or maybe just avoid the little monster and continue after you. All goes down to the nature of the creature.
[Edited by - G-Irregular on April 3, 2006 9:38:28 PM]
Games are meant for entertainment. but if they want to make it realistic, they'll have to make it damn realistic...in terms of gameplay I mean. Mainly horror as well. sometimes it's cool to have a monster chasing you everywhere and then some idiotic creture stands in your way through the chase, avoid it and perhaps the boss might stop to kill the following creature and then give chase, or maybe just avoid the little monster and continue after you. All goes down to the nature of the creature.
[Edited by - G-Irregular on April 3, 2006 9:38:28 PM]
I agree with you, thats why I put that bit about a guard in. Having stupid enemies in the way who get trampled by you or the boss adds a coolness factor to your game and a power factor to the boss.
Do you mean like in Devil may cry when that spider keeps following you around and then you keep coming up across that bird thing? (I love that game, lol.) Anyway, yeah, I think it sounds like a brilliant idea. I think you should make it so that the boss dissapears for a while making you feel safe and in the clear, and then when you least expect it make it burst through a wall at you or something causing you to jump out of your skin. I read in a book that to make something really scary you have to keep having a period of calmness between shocks because then you can get people when they least expect it.
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