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Stiffler

[web] Starting web programming

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Okay, I am a complete beginner to web proramming (literaly today was that first day i have even picked up stuff about it) and i had a couple of questions... 1) Is it bad to create a web page almost entirely made in java with an applet 2) If question 1 is a yes, is there a specific scripting language that you feel would be best for me, (I have experience in many languages like c/c++/java...). That's all I can think of now. Thanks.

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Yes, very. Not only does it completely break any search engines that try to crawl your site, but it also leaves anyone without Java out in the cold. Sites that are entirely in Java or Flash I simply do not visit. The same thing goes for doing your entire site (including the text) in images. Just don't do it!

Learn XHTML. Learn CSS. Don't learn flash. Don't learn java. While they can be used to enhance websites, 90% of the time they're only used for eyecandy or wrongly as navigation "cool menus". Remember that a web site's purpose is to provide information in an accessable manner, not to be some uber-cool super-animated thing with sound and music and 20 animated things on the screen at once.

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Quote:
Original post by Stiffler
1) Is it bad to create a web page almost entirely made in java with an applet

Generally. Even sites wholly developed in Flash can be annoying, because of how they often break navigational norms in web pages (try right-clicking and opening a link in a Flash object in a new window; espn.com is the only site I know of that allows that, and I suspect it took extra programming).

Quote:
2) If question 1 is a yes, is there a specific scripting language that you feel would be best for me, (I have experience in many languages like c/c++/java...).

Client-side, JavaScript is pretty much your only option. On the server side, there are a ton of alternatives. You'll have to select one on the basis of availability on your web server, documentation, style/preference and so forth.

Note, however, that scripting is used to add dynamic behaviors to web pages. Make sure you solidify your core abilities in HTML/XHTML and XML.

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Original post by jonahrowley
Learn XHTML. Learn CSS. Don't learn flash. Don't learn java. While they can be used to enhance websites, 90% of the time they're only used for eyecandy or wrongly as navigation "cool menus".

That's pretty subjective advice. Better advice would be to learn appropriate use of Flash and Java.

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Remember that a web site's purpose is to provide information in an accessable manner, not to be some uber-cool super-animated thing with sound and music and 20 animated things on the screen at once.

Again, subjective. Sometimes the purpose of a website is to be "some über-cool, super-animated thing with sound and music and animated things on the screen at once."

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Alright, thanks for the replys, I acually already have Macromedia studio 8 from a friend but haven't thought about using it. Guess I'll give it a try. I'll be back though, I'm sure I'll have millinos of questions :)

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There are very nice videos from microsoft which teach ASP.NET
I forget where I wrote the URL but Im sure someone here can post a link.

And learning from videos isnt as bad as it sounds, they are actually very good and you can learn while you eat [smile]

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I would avoid the likes of Java / Flash, as mentioned by others, and instead go with a scripting language.

My personal choice would be PHP, which is very similar to C++/Java in terms of syntax. Im not a big fan of ASP, but each to their own.

You may however be limited in choice by your web host, check which one they support before learning anything. If your on a linux server ASP is not available to you, if your on windows you will definately have ASP, but might not have ASP.NET or PHP, it depends on your servers config.

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If you are going to build websites, then you need to know (X)HTML and CSS before you know anything else. Every website on the internet uses HTML. If it doesn't use HTML, then it isn't a website.

Every website that is not just black Times New Roman on a white background uses Cascading style Sheets for layout and typography.

I have my students use this site:
http://www.w3schools.com/

start here:
http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_intro.asp

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I think javascript is being underestimated. It can do lots of handy effects, not just memory hogging bullshit effects. Primarily useful are the scripts that make certain parts of a page (dis)appear when mouseover-ed or clicked on (javascript + CSS). It makes navigating a website/cropping information to a small field much easier.

I would recommend Flash for highquality media, especially when you're dealing with short videoclips. Java should be left alone unless you're making a serious applet like a game for example.

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Quote:
Original post by Pipo DeClown
I think javascript is being underestimated. It can do lots of handy effects, not just memory hogging bullshit effects. Primarily useful are the scripts that make certain parts of a page (dis)appear when mouseover-ed or clicked on (javascript + CSS). It makes navigating a website/cropping information to a small field much easier.

I would recommend Flash for highquality media, especially when you're dealing with short videoclips. Java should be left alone unless you're making a serious applet like a game for example.


That's what I was about to say, what happened to javascript.
So many things can be done with javascripts.

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What's stopping my motivation the most for learning javascript is it so non cross-browser compliant.

I mean, I don't want to write my code 3 times for the same thing..

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Original post by Tynnhammar
What's stopping my motivation the most for learning javascript is it so non cross-browser compliant.

I mean, I don't want to write my code 3 times for the same thing..

It's not as bad as some people make it seem.

The language is the same - same syntax and same features in all major browsers - it's just that the DOM differs from browser to browser which makes manipulating your pages some hassle.

Even then - that situation has improved in the latest generation of browser. These days you realy only have to worry about problem if you choose to use browser specific object members, like object.visibilty instead of object.style.display.

Quote:
Original post by Tradone
So many things can be done with javascripts.

<shamelessplug>Yeah, tell me about it.</shamelessplug>

The great thing about it is that the only browser specific thing in those is the way the key events are initialised.

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Actually, the DOM is the same across all modern browsers. The odd one out - Netscape 4 - has been dead for years now. Quirks Mode is an excellent site for resolving any remaining cross-browser oddities.

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Quote:
Original post by Tynnhammar
What's stopping my motivation the most for learning javascript is it so non cross-browser compliant.

I mean, I don't want to write my code 3 times for the same thing..


I ignore firefox, opera, modzilla.

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