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hawk2k3

Is game development possible without being able to program?

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The reason I ask is because I do not seem to have the ability to be able to program(and yes it has been tried many times before you start asking if I've tried). The only thing it seems I can do is just do writing of the games stories and world visualization(aka I can write how I percieve the game world). An example is of a MMo I have in mind(not as a beginning project mind you) where I have a timeline set up, how certain elements of the games story come together(mind you it's just being thought out). I doubt that would be good enough for anything. I realize this might be a lost cause, but would like any input if possible on how I can accomplish it.

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OH NOES HE SAID MMO!!!! EVERYONE FLAME HIM!!!

Anyways, I'm pretty sure the only requirement to game development is, hmm, playing video games?

Just my opinion though.

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Original post by G-Irregular
how badly do you want it. If you want it badly, you'll do whatever it takes to get it.


Well...I really want to do, except that I am not able to understand programming and working with 3d (It's part of a disability that I have, very hard for me to explain it).



Xetheriel- what's so bad about MMO as a generic term? Only requirement to game development in playing games? That makes no sense to me

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Original post by Xetheriel
Anyways, I'm pretty sure the only requirement to game development is, hmm, playing video games?

Hmm? You mean, like 'The only requirement to become a forest ranger is, hmm, eating deer'.

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I think that behind are the times when the programmers were the only people developing games. I think that there is place in game industry for a person who isn't familiar with programming.

- A person who isn't familiar with programming may have plenty of useful ideas or is able to conduct research for modellers or do level design.

- I know several of people in the game industry who have master's degree in a totally different field than computers or anything related.

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Original post by hawk2k3
Well...I really want to do, except that I am not able to understand programming and working with 3d (It's part of a disability that I have, very hard for me to explain it).

Hmm, it is a disability of sight or hand? Or a mental thing? Anyway, as long as you can type, you can learn to program, I think. There are more people with handicap here working away on their games than you might imagine.
Even if you don't want to get into coding/3D, you can design games, producing design docs and ideas and stuff, and then go find a team in the help wanted forum.

Quote:

Xetheriel- what;s so bad about MMO as a generic term?


The bad thing about MMO is that it is Massive Multiplayer, which requires a bootload of coding, rather deep network knowledge, and Massive content.
So many newbies posted 'Hi I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm gonna make a baddass MMORPG, need team', that many have developed kinda allergic reactions when someone talks 'MMORPG'. Nothing personal. [smile]

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Original post by Konfusius
Quote:
Original post by hawk2k3
Well...I really want to do, except that I am not able to understand programming and working with 3d (It's part of a disability that I have, very hard for me to explain it).

Hmm, it is a disability of sight or hand? Or a mental thing? Anyway, as long as you can type, you can learn to program, I think. There are more people with handicap here working away on their games than you might imagine.
Even if you don't want to get into coding/3D, you can design games, producing design docs and ideas and stuff, and then go find a team in the help wanted forum.

Quote:

Xetheriel- what's so bad about MMO as a generic term?


The bad thing about MMO is that it is Massive Multiplayer, which requires a bootload of coding, rather deep network knowledge, and Massive content.
So many newbies posted 'Hi I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm gonna make a baddass MMORPG, need team', that many have developed kinda allergic reactions when someone talks 'MMORPG'. Nothing personal. [smile]


First off it's a mental disability ( for example I have a good understandinf of computers in which I can install hardware[and obviously software] know the parts and read about them, but as soon as I try to go as far a programming my brain 'fails to compute'), second of all...I was just using the MMO as an example. I've read about what some of the projects are pretty bad starter project(which i believe MMO is #1), but what I have planned in just something I'd like to get to one day be it a year after the first game is made or 5 years and a few games, no harm in planning for the future right?

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Hey,

Im starting a MMO, and yes were going fine (core of engine being constructed)

I had no idea what programming involved, i had a very small amount of knowlage in 3D, all you need to do i download truespace 3.2 (google it) and mess around, use tutorials, its easy.

Then come here and either join a team as a designer, or ask for people to join, i recommend you have a complete design document typed up to show people.

OFF TOPIC
if you want, i will post some concept art, and renders here to show how were getting on.

Good Luck!

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Quote:
Original post by invisal
You want to create game without programming?
Yes, it is posible, by using program below:

3D Gamemaker
FPS Creator

But they are limited.


and probably require programming abilities too... its still programming m8, just simplified

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Either way, to the OP

I was just being sarcastic about the MMO bit, that is what seems to happen when people post things about MMO's in general around here :).

Not that it is the way I feel :).

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Do you have innovative ideas? Are you articulate in your native tongue and can you convey your ideas to others? Do you know how to prepare design docs and are you punctual enough to deliver on schedule?

Not everyone is a programmer, nor should you aspire to be one if you don't want to. There are plenty of other areas in game development where programming skills are not necessary and would probably impede on one's performance (e.g. a manager consuming himself with minor details and failing to grasp a larger view of the project).

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Guest Anonymous Poster
First off, I was curious, how do you know you have disability of programming? Have you been diagnosed by a doctor or a psychologist for your disability, or are you just simply can't dig yourself in as soon as you started typing "void main(void)"? Any physical symptom besides feeling "Gee, what is this that I'm typing?"? If not, well, you just didn't tried hard enough. Programming is never ment to be a cake walk.

If you are indded having some physical/mental disability about programming, then try one of the following:

1) If you can write good stories, then become a story writer, many games seems to lacking in this department, so a good story writer will be in great demand in the industry.

2) Can you draw pictures? Visualize you dreams, be it a horror nightmare or a wet fantasy, if you can come out with some nice drawing, chances are game companies will be interested in using you art design.

3) Can you compose nice music? Are you sensitive about sound? Talents in the sound/music department are an essetial part of a game too.

4) Fancy creating weird critters or magnificent structures in 3D? Then you may take up the challenge of a 3d modeller/level designer.

5) Have an attractive, sexy voice? You look like Brad Pitt or Leonardo Decaprio? May be you can work as a voice talent or play in the cinematic cutscene?

all the above and more are related to the game industry and do not require you to be a Microsoft Certified Programmer (or whatever). If worst come to worst, you can always apply for work as a motion capture actor, it's still related to game developement (sort of...) Or work as a marketing officers in a game publishing company.

-geekman-

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Can you describe all the details of opening a door? Yes you probably can. Now take that and explain in in a child like manner? Ok good, now explain that to a computer.

Well, as you can see thats a lot harder. Much of programming is simply being able to explain in PAINFULLY EXTREME detail how to accomplish something. Then if you can explain in the extreme detail, you must be able to tell the computer how to do this. Luckily for you, we do not have to do this with 1's and 0's anymore, but it does require a general knowledge of a programming language. Learning the language is the first opstical. Just like learning Spanish for example, you can get around Mexico with a limited vocabulary, but the more you know the better.

So basically sit down and learn a language, it will take about a month to strengthen your vocabulary. Then sit down and tell the computer how to solve something in extrememe detail.

The complications come from not allowing yourself enough time to learn what you want to apply. Just like anything, if you stick with it you will get better at what you do.. after all this is a human trait.

As for mental blocks/illness, that is your own excuse for failure, I would recommend to stop using it as a crutch. I know a lot of very bright people with some kind of "learning disability". I mean really, what kid these days doesnt have A-D-D or something?

So If you cant do the above, then you cant be a programmer.. sorry. But realize that anybody should be able to do anything they put their mind to. Of course you will suck at first, but isnt that the point... become the best at something through hard work? The harder it is, the more rewarding it is.


As for placement in the game industry, there are basically two catagories:

1) art
2) programming


So if your very artistic go that route, if your good at problem solving then go with programming. You will become better with the one you choose, by mastering them both IMO. Rememeber, everyone has an idea... only a select few are able to make it a reality.

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Well, as most people in this thread has already said, there's a difference between looking at code and saying "I don't understand this", and having an actual disability of any kind.
I don't know your situation, but I don't think I've ever heard of any "can't learn programming" disability. That's not to say it doesn't exist, but it might just be that you think it looks complicated, and have then *decided* that you can't learn it.

In any case, there are plenty of non-programmers working in game development. Artists, modellers, animators, sound people, game designers, testers, or even the more business-oriented positions like producers/managers.
However, don't expect to be able to get a job as just a game designer. Those are usually picked in-house, and definitely not taken from random people with no experience.

But if you're skilled in one of these areas, you'll be able to do as much game development as a programmer.

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As much as I want everyone to be a programmer, I am going to have to lay down the strong arm of compassion here.

Give the kid a break, he obviously tried programming and that is more than a lot of people will ever do.

Programming is hard and some people just don't have the state of mind to do it (either because of a disability or brain wiring). My mom will never be a programmer, my boss will never be a programmer, my dog will never be a programmer. If it's not something he's cut out for, let him be.

OP, if you can't program, your task is a lot harder. If you can't program or draw (even 2d not just 3d), your task is a hell of a lot harder. Your writing and team management skills better be top-notch or you are going to have a hard time creating a functional video game out of your idea.

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Quote:
Original post by Xetheriel
Either way, to the OP

I was just being sarcastic about the MMO bit, that is what seems to happen when people post things about MMO's in general around here :).

Not that it is the way I feel :).


What about beeing constructive before beeing sarcastic, especially since your visible adventure on gdnet is only a couple of hours long? Read this fundamental post again about how to behave on this forum.

@OP:
Game development is not just about programming - it is about a lot of different subject: producing, creating art and programming. If you don't like programming, you can try art (writing, music, 2D art, 3D art, texture). Writing and game design are especially hard, because what you write/design have to be connected with what can be done - even if you don't program, you have to have a good understanding of what is possible and what is not. The MMO where anything can happen can't exist.

Game production is a high level field. It requires a good understanding of the game business and solid management skills. You won't be a game producer by just saying you are.

In fact, as a beginner, your solution are more or less: do art, or program.

Now, you are lucky, because programming is not that hard? You said you tried? What did you try? There are plenty of simple language, simple suff to learn everywhere. For example, let's consider Visual Basic: it is really a beginner language - with VB, you can do complex UI in a couple of minutes.

Programming is not very difficult, in fact. Of course, if you only try to program, you'll fail (but anyway, if you only try to do anything, you'll fail as well). Programming, as any other non trivial task, requires involvement and constance.

Regards,

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You could try Game Maker. It is really easy to use. You can make a whole game without ever writing any code using only drag n drop. My game dev team uses this for all of our games(mainly because I'm the only one interested in actual programming).

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My mother happenends to be a teacher for the mentally handycapped, what he is probably refering to is a general advanced learning disability (think highschool age at 3rd grade level). It takes these people 5-20 times as much time and focus to learn, along with the need for help in these endevores. IMHO, this therefor makes programming impossiable, for the sheer fact they will have to be constantly learning.

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

As for mental blocks/illness, that is your own excuse for failure, I would recommend to stop using it as a crutch. I know a lot of very bright people with some kind of "learning disability". I mean really, what kid these days doesnt have A-D-D or something?


Ok....How about you try for to learn for 2 years while both learning in your own and trying to take a class while still being at the same mental spot you were at 2 years ago. Point is I've tried and I just can't do it, hell I was learning Basic and was not able to understand it(as it's the same deal with complex math with me).

Moving on, What does a Game Designer do be exact(I've seen the term used but never explained)? Is there anywhere I might find info on the other positions within a game company?

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There are plenty of jobs developing games that don't involve knowledge of programming. The best way for someone with no programming or art expertise to become a game designer is to start out as a tester.

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My recommendation:

1) Work up a design document for the game you want to make

2) Create some content. Models, textures, levels, etc. As much of everything you can do without programming.

3) Go to the Help Wanted forum here, present all the work you've done, and look for a programmer to do the programming for you. Really, I think we have more programmers than artists here (compare the number of technical forums to non-technical forums, compare the number of posts in technical forums to non-technical forums), so you'll probably have better luck than the people posting with a great game engine and looking for content.

By the way, really the only reasons MMO's are bad ideas for starters are:

1) Most beginners severely underestimate the amount of content required to keep a massive number of players entertained (= lots of time)

2) Most beginners severely underestimate the sever load that a massive number of players creates (= lots of money)

3) There is no immediate (< 1 year) gratification to keep beginners motivated

These may or may not be issues for you...

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