Quote:Original post by nimrand
"Dead" is a fairly subjective term when used this way. Its an API that will be supported for a long time to come, thanks to all the software that has been written to it. But, many newer programs are being targeted at .NET, and so it isn't being used directly quite as often as it used to be. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft started officially deprecating parts of the API in the next two years. Especially since the new APIs that Windows Vista is coming out with pretty much obsolete most of whats in the win 32 API. And, the new APIs like WinFX are not being written on top of existing APIs. They sit directly on top of the kernel, unlike most of the original .NET Framework libraries.

Some valid points but again, a long ways off from happening and some hooks to Win32 will even likely exist in MS's next OS. This is one reason MS moves so slow, they're support for legacy code. Whereas Apple just says "that's it" and cuts out the old stuff cleaning up the code base a lot. But to each their own.

Dinner time!

Ha, just noticed Sneftel's little "for all intensive purposes" comment haha. For all intents and purposes, maybe? ;-) This is for you Sneftel! http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/intensive.html

Quote:Original post by hplus0603
What do you think .NET is implemented on top of?

QFT.

Win32 API isn't going anywhere, not until 128 bit computing is prevalent and Microsoft is tired of supporting Win16, Win32, Win64, and Win128. :P (Commodore models, anyone? Need a Plus/4 and Vic-20...)

C# not used for "professional" games? I beg to disagree. Sheesh.

My opinion: too much emphasis is placed on "engine speed", "glitzy graphics", "sound effects" - these are the things that make elitists decry C# as a "game programming language." Know what? Maybe folks should learn how to make a fun game first... and how to make it look and sound better second.

Quote:I'm just curious, I'm not trying to start a C++ vs C# war, I just want to learn. But are there any professional AAA - A, or even published games I can get at my local game store that are made out of C#?

Unfortunately, no [smile] That's one of the most frequent things you hear why not to use C# for your game, but it's hardly a valid argument for the proposition that C# is inherently unfit to code games in.

MDX and C# have only been around for a few years (iirc 2.5 and 4 respectively), which makes them 'new technology' which no big company will risk using until it becomes 'proven technology'. With the advent of .NET2.0, I'd say the .NET platform as a whole could very well be qualified as proven/mature by now. MDX however has had a few startup troubles and in my opinion it only really kicked into gear since Summer 2005, with finally a committed MS team being assigned to it only since the GDC 2006.

So from this point of view it's still too early for companies to risk using MDX as the prime platform for their final games, but you hear a lot about big players already using it for their studio tools (confirmed, but I'm not sure if it's ok to disclose). That should be a clear indication that MDX has its place in the industry and I feel it's only a matter of time before C# games will be coming out, especially now with XNA and the prospective ability to ship on the XBox360.

Here we touch upon another real downside to developing in .NET, that again has little to do with the fitness for game coding of the platform itself. As pointed out before, .NET games aren't as portable across consoles as C++ ones can be. I think this might just be the biggest issue for AAA title developers. IIRC, consoles constitute about 90% of the games market out there, so with the current limitation that MDX can only be used on Windows, these developers won't invest in making a game for such a small market.

Now if the potential market for .NET games could be increased to say 30% with XBox360 publishing in about a year, things will become more interesting. It's still not an ideal situation for AAA developers, but with MS owning quite a few of those through MS Game Studios and since these mainly publish on MS platforms (ie. Windows and the XBox360 by next year), the .NET platform and MDX may become much more interesting for them. Not to mention to quite a few indies who probably would be more than happy with the prospect of the ability to reach some 30% of the market.

Hope this satisfies your curiosity :)