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eelke_folmer

decline in innovation only natural...

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"By now it’s a common place observation that the game industry has become more conservative, that games have become less interesting, more stereotypical less original, less willing to take risks. The development coincides with trend towards consolidation: large publishing conglomerates have bought out many of the small independent developers. These conglomerates make money by cranking out sequels and copycat products rather than truly interesting and innovative creations." Some quote I found somewhere.... I was thinking: From nothing to Pong that's a huge step.. Wolfenstein ... a big step.. The Sims ... a big step too.. Every game brought out after these titles are just smaller steps on an existing concept, mabye spore will bring something new but that is still to be seen. I recently played katamari damacy and guitar hero, in my opinion pretty innovative games for their genres, original yes.. but really as innovative as pong was...no. Isn't there just an upper limit on how much innovation is still possible? I mean at a certain point every type of game on any thinkable theme will be made, something that I already experience when watching movies or listening music... asking for more innovation at a certain point is not possible and the decline in innovation we currently see is just natural.

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Quake 1 was also a great step for competition, StarCraft took the ideas and put them to work in a RTS environment. Half Life was the first successfully title who brough a new era of atmosphere.

I consider those games as big as Pong and Sims. Sometime you don't have to define a new genre. Just RE-DEFINE it or add another dimmension. People expect too much too different gameplay mechanics...

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Original post by eelke_folmer
Isn't there just an upper limit on how much innovation is still possible? I mean at a certain point every type of game on any thinkable theme will be made, something that I already experience when watching movies or listening music... asking for more innovation at a certain point is not possible and the decline in innovation we currently see is just natural.

reminds me of
"Everything that can be invented, is already invented" -- Charles H. Duell, 1899

there’s always new ideas to explore, even if they wernt coming out with new technology every year that makes new thing possible i don’t think there would be a upper limit,
As for music try listening to some in other languages or made in other countries, it only seems to be north American music hasn't done anything original since the 70's

For games I think the main problem is bugets too big for their own good, software design and development is a new art and prone to failure so companies aren’t willing to invest a current day game development budget into a project unless they know it will succeed, meaning that any game play and programming elements must be “tried and tested”

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Original post by Codman
Quake 1 was also a great step for competition, StarCraft took the ideas and put them to work in a RTS environment. Half Life was the first successfully title who brough a new era of atmosphere.

And for a even more recent example, WH40k: Dawn of War took Starcraft, turned it upside down, shuffled the pieces around a bit, and redefined the RTS genre in a much more innovative way than Starcraft did (Hell, Starcraft was just WC2 with 3 races instead of 2, and some more complex balancing)

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Original post by eelke_folmer
From nothing to Pong that's a huge step..

Pong was based upon tennis, a game/sport most people were already familiar with when it was introduced. Most - if not all - ideas are based upon pre-existing concepts or situations.

As I see it, the main reason games seem less innovative these days is that many designers base their ideas on previous computer/console games rather than looking outside the industry for inspiration or exploring the roots of each genre.

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Original post by Spoonbender
Quote:
Original post by Codman
Quake 1 was also a great step for competition, StarCraft took the ideas and put them to work in a RTS environment. Half Life was the first successfully title who brough a new era of atmosphere.

And for a even more recent example, WH40k: Dawn of War took Starcraft, turned it upside down, shuffled the pieces around a bit, and redefined the RTS genre in a much more innovative way than Starcraft did (Hell, Starcraft was just WC2 with 3 races instead of 2, and some more complex balancing)


The irony in this being that starcraft was designed as warcraft in space - warcraft was designed as Warhammer...and WH40K was warhammer in space...

E.g. Blizzard ripped off Warhammer first.

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Is the Sims such a big step? If you had seen Little Computer People back in 1985, you would have the core game mehanics. Sims in an awesome game, I'm not disagreeing with that.

I often look through C64 and ZX Spectrun fan sites / archives -- not to clone a game, but to spark some idea. People often say that the simplistic hardware of the ZX Spectrum era led to some very imaginative thinking from the devs.

cheers,
b.

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Imo, innovation is not so much invention as it is refreshing. And I think that just like most other things it life, innovation in games is in a cycle, we just happen to be in a low point. Several years from now I think the games will start being more innovative.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Speaking particularly of console games, it seems like one way publishers could go is to distance themselves from games of the past is to create more open ended games that have fewer sequential challenges. Ie, to progress, you don't have to follow that same old pattern to get from start to finish. Even games that try to get away from this (GTA, wonderful example) still have a main story to progress through. It would be very hard to get away from having that one monolithic narrative that ties together all the disparate little missions, sidestories, etc. But imagine an adventure game where you can just wander around a town, interact with friends, get in little mini-games/adventures and explore to the heart's content. I love good old adventure games with their strong single narratives, but one that truly allowed for a multiplicity of stories would offer an incredible diversity of possibilities. It wouldn't focus on what is essentially just a reworked idea of "the level" (i pass this challenge, move onto a new one).

Anyway, just a thought/daydream.

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