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Tane

Weapons Research

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Does anyone know any good sites I can get information on real-world (and Sci-Fi) weapon types, damage, etc? Anything would be appreciated. Tane Piper Lead Designer - ZZICT Entertainment http://www.zzict.nl

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I don''t think the words "Real World" should be anywhere near the word "damage"...
The most common ''Real World'' weapon-type is the firearm, be it pistol, SMG, Rifle, Assault Rifle, etc...and, needless to say, getting hit by a bullet WILL hurt...last I opened my eyes, I didn''t have a little counter telling me that i just took two bullets and am now down to 35 Health....

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I''ve always believed that working out how much damage items do is one of the game design secrets to adding more of an original touch to your game anyhow. Why would you want to copy these of other peoples conceptions of weapon damage etc. Its far far more fun to do it yourself anyhow - this is what game design is all about is it?!

A designer doesnt need to know everything about code, they just have to have an appreciation for its limitations and how those limitations affect features they may wish to include in their design. - Drew

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Go get a book on guns. That''ll give you the specification of the guns (i.e. barrel length, muzzle velocity, rounds per mag, etc).

They usually don''t say anything about the damage though, so you''ll have to work it out for yourself. A formula like Velocity * mass * calibre should do nicely.

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Well, if you run through www.specialoperations.com you should find something. More on the technical and employment side, but you can usually find some nice ballistics info in the SOCNET weapons forum. Search the site and the forum and you'll probably find some, if not all, of what you need.

Don't expect any Sci-Fi info though.

Edited by - The Arachnid on February 2, 2001 5:12:38 AM

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Try being a little creative with the Sci-Fi stuff. Idea farm.

A great place to start would be the Science Section of the New York Times (You''ll have to register though )... Scan for articles on physics, quantam mechanics, and other breakthrough technologies. You should get some gems like the "Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider". (Maybe not useful as a weapon, but it sounds cool ) Make a list, read the articles, and tie (and/or exagerate) some of the concepts (particle acceleration, slowing/stopping the speed of light, etc) together into something of your own, that sounds vaguely feasible.

And it won''t be another laser beam {hopefully}.

-pwd

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Have you tried any of the weapons manufacturers sites?

for instance www.mannlicher.at is the site of Steyr, the manufacturer of the ever-popular Steyr-AUG assault rifle/carbine..

i bet S&W or H&K are easy to find...

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By damage of the bullet i think he means more along the lines of will it pierce through armor or a vest of some kind. The actual damage of the bullet done is based purely upon size, force, location, and type of bullet. A huge bullet hitting you slowly would hurt, but not nessicarily kill you. Say, if i picked up a 20mm shell and lobbed it at you, it would leave a bruise.. no more If one were fired out you, the velocity of impact would rip through any type of body armor and put about a 2-3 inch hole through you. Granted, you could live through this.. if it were your hand, or maybe foot. Any half-way critical part of your body would require immediate medical care at a chance of life.

All you need to find is data on the shells and weapons. I don''t know exactly where to get this info, but many people have already put up links to this.

For sci-fi, try looking at NASA''s experimental page. It''s got data on things more for flight, but all of those could have a gun or weapon component. Also, look at anything physics related. A gravity gun, which could collapse a side of a ship, or explode it outwards.. without anyone ever knowing... or even a particle accelerator.. or an EMP gun? There''s almost any number of ways you could go with this.. any crazy idea could be a weapon. Heck, think about interesting sci-fi tricks you''ve seen in movies. In lawnmower man, he made the guy''s particles fly around eachother.. breakdown on a molecular level. Imagine what would happen if you did that inside a ship''s nuclear reactor? oops..

J

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What kind of game are we talking about anyway?

i assumed fps, but i´m not so sure now....

with real-life weapons note that almost everything is possible nowadays. THere´s assault rifles that can punch through the plating of an APC, and than muzzle velocities of over 1000m/sec can cause severe impact trauma, which is deadly most of the times, even when u´re not hit in a vital area (the force of impact causes expansion and contraction "waves" in the surrounding tissue, which at those velocities is so severe that there is massive and widespread tissue damage... rips everything apart.. so, it´s not just a hole you get).
Note that these weapons are banned by the geneva convention (as the objective of shooting someone in a war is to "incapacitate" him, not kill him).

the penetrative power of a bullet is mostly determined by it´s type, not so much by it´s caliber.

i´m not sure about what they´re called but here goes:

the standard steel jacket: goes for penetration, stays more or less whole (only moderate deformation), may come out on the other side. this is what you normally find in a carbine or assault rifle.

hollow point: with a lead casing and a flat or hollow tip these deform heavily, may even fragment. found mostly in handguns (nasty) and hunting rifles (because they ensure a kill9.
these would be easier to stop with a bullet proof vest, but would cause massive (ie: u´re dead) damage on unprotected areas. If there´s an exit wound it´s usually the size of a melon.

and then there are a few other meanies, such as APDS (armor piercing), some AP munitions have a normal outer shell, with a steel or even tungsten shard inside. while the outer shell delivers it´s kinetic energy to the punch inertia carries the shard forward, cutting throug any bullet proof vest (remember: they´re bullet proof, but you can cut through them easily)

if you use a combination of real-life and sci-fi weapons i´d avoid anything too far-out (so no shrink ray or something like it).
but lasers, masers, emp-guns, maybe a gamma ray blaster, plasma accelerator...
just stay plausible, otherwise the design behind the gun is easily lost, then it´s just your green-blob shooter thingy. But you could have a lot of fun just with lasers... they need a lot of juice, the beam might even be invisible, does a lot of damage, but can be reflected (by water in a puddle, by a glass windows); there´d be some range dissipation, and of course you cant shoot through smoke... (so you got to give them smoke grenades)

i think that the more far-out physics related stuff would work better in space shooter/strategy games, cause i think it would be in no-ones interest to give a gravity gun to a footsoldier (sure, he killed the enemy, but redesigning the landscape in the process?)

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Shell size only plays a roll in the ammount of damage done, not in piercing, really. I mean, you''ve got mass and force. The more mass you have, the more force it takes to both move and stop it. If you took a .22 cal bullet and fired it with the force of a 22mm shell, the thing would prolly blow through depleated uranium armor like a knife through butter. Something that''s smaller can more easily do that because it doesn''t have to worry about the damage spreading over too large an area.

That''s one major thing to remember in armor.. damage spread. The reason a kevlar vest stops a bullet is that the fibers of the vest resist ripping. Thus, the full impact force of the bullet is still transferred to the body underneath. If you have an armor plate underneath, the armor resists bending further. This spreads the impact over a LARGE area. If the impact force is put in a small area, it explodes blood vessles, causing bruising. This is the shockwave aforementioned.
In medieval times, a crossbow bolt caused almost instant death 99% of the time. Why? the impact force. The bolt was blunt, not sharp. Imagin someone firing a gaint nail at you, with a dull tip. The tip would hit, impacting a SMALL area with LARGE force. This caused a pressure difference between the inside of the body and the outside. This pressure difference caused the body to literally EXPLODE outwards! And since the bolt was the center of impact, and the skin was weakest there, the explosion would center on the bolt. If shot in the stomahce, you pretty much had instant catastrophic result. The entire abdomen could burst if the crossbow was large enough. Even a shot to the hand could cause enough pressure difference to knock the opponent out due to system shock, along with exploding the hand. So your victim would bleed to death.

This is considered a much gruesome death, and thus is banned, as well But it''s the truth. If you were hit with a rocket, without it exploding, your body would explode due to over-pressurization. Sounds fun, don''t it? Having plate armor thick enough to resist the impact would stop a bolt. It would resist bennding and spread the impact over a large area. So in effect.. you need to focus on the molecule level of things. Strong bonds means stronger armor. This also leads to new weapons. We''ve got armor piercing bullets, which have a longer snout, and a sharper tip. The theory is, if you could start to seperate the armor on a molecular level, then you could break through and cause damage. If you''ve ever seen an armor piercing missle.. you''ll know they have a LONG needle on the front of them. The goal of the needle is to make the slightest hole into the tank, then there''s a part behind it to enlarge the hole.. and then the explosive part of the missle which will rip the tank to shreds. If you hit the tank with just the explosive, it would resist it. But the fact that you needle a small hole makes a difference.

Just something to consider on the armor side

J

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Awhile back, I did a search on yahoo/dogpile for railgun information. The U.S. government has some sites showing their current progress in this field. One site I finally found showed actual test firings...awesome indeed...one shot showed a piece of armor-grade steel that was about 12" in length, that was cut in half after testing, that showed a hole that had been melted through it from a railgun projectile travelling over 6km a sec.
(if you don''t trust me, I will send you the images...)
Unbelievable...also, the vulcanII on the A-10 warthog, sporting
super dense/heavy depleted Uranium slugs, can penetrate clean through any tank in the current world arsenal. Impressive...!
Do a search on yahoo/dogpile and you should be well on the way...

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