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Scipio3

Making a 3d game

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Is it realsitic to expect to be able to make a 3d game as an independent. If it is not realistic, why isn't it? What are the different hurdles that an independent faces in creating a 3d game? Is it just unrealistic to try to produce a 3d game with the same level of technology as a current commercial game? Is it realistic to be able to produce a 3d game that uses older technology? I've been thinking about creating a space-based game that has ships in 3-d, what are the specific hurldles that must be overcome to produce such a game? --Scipio3

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Scipio,
It is realsitic to make 3d game as an independet , but it will be very hard to prduce a 3d game as an independet developer that meet the requirments of a commercial game.

today games using technology that cost money. also , each game company have artists , script writers , musicians etc.

in case you are able to get your hands on a full dedicated team it will be realsitic.

about the 3-d ships game , it is depending on which skills you talking about. developing ? art ? design ?
if you are talking about the all picture then there is alot to learn that probobly will not be possible to write here.

point your finger on the specific issues you willing to understand and I'll try to give you a more specific answer.

hope that make sense :),
Nuno1

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Quote:
Original post by Kambiz
It was produced by one programmer and one artist in only one month.
I think it's important to make clear that when a programmer writes something in 'one month', he/she is leveraging all of his/her previous experience (often many years' worth) as well. If you know exactly how to write a Q3 level renderer, you can do it in a week. But if you've never written a single line of code, that's not going to happen. I just mention this because I think it can be a bit misleading to a beginner to say that such a program can be 'written in a month'; perhaps it can be, but establishing the foundation that makes that possible can take years.

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It's just that I want a better picture of what is realisitic.

A lot of people in these forums talk about how a lot of projects are unrealistic. I just wanted to know why certain projects are unrealistic.

As far as what I was asking about 3d games....

what is the main thing about developing a 3d game that presents a major hurdle? I've been reading a book on OpenGL, and I haven't gotten that far in the book, but the author has already been able to make a scene (moving frame by frame) in which the user can walk around a virtual room with spheres on the floor. I didn't know that there was free, open-source code out there that could do this before starting the book on openGL. Now that I've seen it, I'm wondering about what the major hurdles or problems are with creating a 3d game. Is it...

collision detection?
making the framerate smooth?
producing art?
just getting it to look polished?
a multitude of small problems (like bugs) that take a lot of time to correct?
the complexity or difficulty of the concepts involved?

For example, I read somewhere in the forum where someone said that it would take forever for one person to make a 3d engine. I haven't gotten too far into the book, but what is a 3d engine? Is it a renderer (like openGL) along with components for collision detection etc. And what part of the engine presents the most dificulty (maybe producing a render that is better than openGL). I'm sorry if it seems like I can't ask more specific questions, but I'm fairly new to some of these things. Despite the vagueness of my questions, however, I'm eager to learn more about the challenges present in the developing a 3d game.


-- scipio3

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Creating a new half life 2 alone is unrealistic, but any good game programmer that has some skill may be able to pull out a 3d game that is fairly good. I have never created a 3d game or application but i've seen many people who've made 3d games before, it atleast looked like that if it wasn't fake screenshots :)

Even if you managed to create a 3d game, there is something called optimization that should be considered when creating a game also.

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Hey Scipio3,

It all depends on what your skill set is before you can determine what is 'realistic'. If you've been programming in C++ for 20 years and have a head for complex mathmatical concepts then writing a commerical 3D game might not be so difficult given enough time. For a beginner who has only just started out then the task is much more difficult.

When i started out learning opengl, I wanted to write a fullscale RTS game, but the more I got into programming it the more complex it got. The more complex the game became, the more time I had to devote to it. In the end I realised it would take me many years to finish it, and by then technology would have changed to make the game look quite primitive. In the end I choose to make a 2D game.

To make a decent 3D game you need to understand OpenGL, C++ and linear algebra inside out. Knowing these will allow you plan out the structure of your engine and write code to make the most efficient use of the hardware it runs on. Getting to this stage takes time.

I say keep practicing by using the examples in the books for the moment. Once you've finished learning the basics of OpenGL, you should be in a better position to determine for yourself what is 'realistic'

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Quote:
Original post by Scipio3
...I'm wondering about what the major hurdles or problems are with creating a 3d game. Is it...

collision detection?
making the framerate smooth?
producing art?
just getting it to look polished?
a multitude of small problems (like bugs) that take a lot of time to correct?
the complexity or difficulty of the concepts involved?

...



I would say all of those points makes a 3D game hard to make, just think over the fact that it's a 2D screen and you want to show some slick displacement mapping on a bunch of polygons in 3D. So, yes, I agree with what everyone has said, making a 3D game isn't hard if you know how to do it.

Hopes this helps!

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Quote:
Original post by Scipio3
It's just that I want a better picture of what is realisitic.

A lot of people in these forums talk about how a lot of projects are unrealistic. I just wanted to know why certain projects are unrealistic.

As far as what I was asking about 3d games....

what is the main thing about developing a 3d game that presents a major hurdle? I've been reading a book on OpenGL, and I haven't gotten that far in the book, but the author has already been able to make a scene (moving frame by frame) in which the user can walk around a virtual room with spheres on the floor. I didn't know that there was free, open-source code out there that could do this before starting the book on openGL. Now that I've seen it, I'm wondering about what the major hurdles or problems are with creating a 3d game. Is it...

collision detection?
making the framerate smooth?
producing art?
just getting it to look polished?
a multitude of small problems (like bugs) that take a lot of time to correct?
the complexity or difficulty of the concepts involved?

For example, I read somewhere in the forum where someone said that it would take forever for one person to make a 3d engine. I haven't gotten too far into the book, but what is a 3d engine? Is it a renderer (like openGL) along with components for collision detection etc. And what part of the engine presents the most dificulty (maybe producing a render that is better than openGL). I'm sorry if it seems like I can't ask more specific questions, but I'm fairly new to some of these things. Despite the vagueness of my questions, however, I'm eager to learn more about the challenges present in the developing a 3d game.


-- scipio3


It all depends on what you target. It's not difficult for one person to make a 3d engine that will deal only with cubes of varying colour, and you can write games with that(a simple 3d tetris for example).
What takes forever for one person to make is start a 3d engine from scratch that will fit for a FPS or a RPG in the lines of Quake, Neverwinter Nights, etc.
The difficult is manly about designing something that is easy to extend and debug, because you will want to start things simples and then evolve, depending on how you initially structured your engine it will difficult to do that.
I'm not even mentioned the fact of someone trying to do this at a "learn on demand" level.

Some tips are:
-Don't reinvent the whell, try to polish the ones that already exist. Even for learning it is the best approach, trial and error for discovering the benefits of techniques x over y is not efficient time wise. If you can't write a HOM culling scene manager for Ogre you possible can't write a new engine that will be better than octree for indoor scenes(intentional).
-Try working with existent teams before going in the one man way. And by team, it doesn't need to be conventional ones, but working in a opensource project will do it.
-Get motivated, real life is a hard monster to beat, specially because you need months of works to see good results in a 3d game.


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Quote:
Original post by Scipio3
I'm wondering about what the major hurdles or problems are with creating a 3d game. Is it...

collision detection?
making the framerate smooth?
producing art?
just getting it to look polished?
a multitude of small problems (like bugs) that take a lot of time to correct?
the complexity or difficulty of the concepts involved?

IMHO, the end result is much more difficult than the sum of it's parts. If you're just doing the rendering of a level then thats not too tricky once you've got the basics. Collision detection is also not too tricky once you've got the required maths down. Loading files is not tricky, neither is getting input from the user, etc. etc. 3D itself is not really that much more work than a 2D game except for the greater amount of art and content required.

Putting it all together in one big, consistant application is the real problem. Thats why you see lots of 'tech demos' which show a shiny new effect but doesn't do much else. Or fancy graphics "engines" which claim all sorts of showy features but no-one has ever made a proper game with. You can get away with sloppy coding and hacks up to a certain point, but eventually it becomes too difficult to add new features without breaking everything else. This is why you get the infamous "last 10%" which takes forever.

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