The idea of immersing the player into such a dynamic and realistic environment is captivating but you have to think about the casual user. I've pretty much all the MMORPGs that have been released in the last 6 years including UO, EQ, DoAC, PS, SWG(original, not the new crap), WoW, Matrix, and numerous others.
EQ was a hit because the genre was relatively new, every other mmorpg release was generally the same thing but with a couple setting changes. And most of the games were atleast "somewhat hard", i know EQ was, i hated dying so much cause it F'ed you up.
If you look at WoW, they've had over 6 million subscribers(thats just saying how many people bought the game, im sure the active user list is probably in half of that). The game is totally easy, you have the WarCraft world, and Blizzard is company known to make outstanding games.
Yeah you can start farming forever in WoW, but it's relatively easy to get to level 60, and a lot of things are just by luck on the draw for finding good items, or rolling on drops(until high lvls). I got to lvl 60 in 12 playing days, EQ took closer to 25-30 days atleast with a whole new player not being helped.
A world like you idea would be great for a hardcore gamer, but I woulnd't think it would be for a normal user because it would require much more attention to detail, and/or skill.
Not knowing the Player Level in MMO-RPGs
Genius, really. Whatever happened to games where you judge the power of your enemies based on their appearance? IMHO all of the "information" provided is really a copout - if I can't tell that uber dragon/player #5 is uber without having a number attached, you've done something wrong. Take Diablo II for instance. While it was a linear game (thereby making it easier to have the player predict enemy strength), it never gave you the levels of enemies explicitly. It did give you player levels, but even this could be considered extraneous when armor was taken into consideration. The guy with lots of shiny sparkly silver armro was obviously very powerful, as is the oddly colored monster that shoots you with really damaging spells.
To me, relying on showing levels means that you don't have enough detail in your simulation. Great idea.
To me, relying on showing levels means that you don't have enough detail in your simulation. Great idea.
It would be easy to design an MMO that doesn't show levels and con colors. I just wouldn't want to be the community manager of the forum, with all the whining about "how com he gets uber powerz and i don? u sux".
The detailed summary of the fight with the dragon is more difficult. What you really seem to want (and what NWN delivers) is the ability to tailor a dungeon session to a group of players. The "chat with the dragon" would need either incredible AI or a human running it. The latter is the best, but if the MMO is too big, how can you pay that many GMs?
There's ways around it, I'm sure, and better AI will probably be coming in the next bunch of years. However, similar to movies, when one of them is a blockbuster, several studio heads decide that they want a blockbuster and should follow the formula. So, since the "level/con/kill/loot/farm" model is the blockbuster, everyone is following that and not breaking the paradigm of the D&D Archetypes of characters (warrior, wizard, cleric, thief, bard).
Similar to the movies, in gaming it will be harder to get anyone to hear a new, different idea. The game developer of the game that is different will have to work very hard to finance it, get it made, and make it work. Only after it's come out and is what the industry feels is a success, will the paradigm change.
I look forward to Prozak's one. :)
The detailed summary of the fight with the dragon is more difficult. What you really seem to want (and what NWN delivers) is the ability to tailor a dungeon session to a group of players. The "chat with the dragon" would need either incredible AI or a human running it. The latter is the best, but if the MMO is too big, how can you pay that many GMs?
There's ways around it, I'm sure, and better AI will probably be coming in the next bunch of years. However, similar to movies, when one of them is a blockbuster, several studio heads decide that they want a blockbuster and should follow the formula. So, since the "level/con/kill/loot/farm" model is the blockbuster, everyone is following that and not breaking the paradigm of the D&D Archetypes of characters (warrior, wizard, cleric, thief, bard).
Similar to the movies, in gaming it will be harder to get anyone to hear a new, different idea. The game developer of the game that is different will have to work very hard to finance it, get it made, and make it work. Only after it's come out and is what the industry feels is a success, will the paradigm change.
I look forward to Prozak's one. :)
Providing a visual queue to a person's skill ( not level because I have always despised the whole idea of levels) has always been an idea that I've favored. Warriors who start out unskilled and a very small build, who eventually, through extensive training, builds his body mass up and you can visually see larger muscles and such.
Magic users power can be displayed as aura's of power around the avatar, this aura could even display this wizard's alignment or school based on certain colors
IMO the idea of levels is an outdated one. All levels do is segregate the community of an MMO and provides the means to inhibit the fun a player can have with others, be it friends or strangers. An MMO should give equal power to a newbie and a vet, but the difference between them is how that power is used. A newbie would be given very few options and very little flexibility in the usage of his power, while a vet would have many options at his disposal and be extremely flexible in combat.
This type of system would also allow players to get out of the “grind” and do things that are actually fun instead of always trying to reach for the highest level.
Magic users power can be displayed as aura's of power around the avatar, this aura could even display this wizard's alignment or school based on certain colors
IMO the idea of levels is an outdated one. All levels do is segregate the community of an MMO and provides the means to inhibit the fun a player can have with others, be it friends or strangers. An MMO should give equal power to a newbie and a vet, but the difference between them is how that power is used. A newbie would be given very few options and very little flexibility in the usage of his power, while a vet would have many options at his disposal and be extremely flexible in combat.
This type of system would also allow players to get out of the “grind” and do things that are actually fun instead of always trying to reach for the highest level.
Quote:Original post by Prozak
Imagine... <SHEER AWESOMENESS!!!>
I don't play RPGs (I've only ever played one for more than two hours). I've never played an MMORPG, and I don't have imminent plans to.
Make this, though, and I'd be intrigued.
I also hate the idea of showing your level. Perhaps make it so there isn't a level at all? Just have skills that you level up from a few 'base' classes. (Warrior, mage, thief/monk, ranger/druid) Have a spectrum of magic for the mage (fire, water, wind, earth) with more spectrums unlocked as you level up others with a lengthy library of spells to each spectrum. Have the warrior get many different types of attacks depending on the weapon he specializes in. Say he holds a sword in a semi-defensive postion but ready to switch poses and counter attack at a moments notice with his advanced counter move.
Also, if I am able to hide my level and/or name, I think I should also be able to cover my high-end armor with a old travel-worn cloak with the hood up or down(to hide my face).
Also, if I am able to hide my level and/or name, I think I should also be able to cover my high-end armor with a old travel-worn cloak with the hood up or down(to hide my face).
I have always wondered why you had to gain HP in games as you level, since you don't in real life.
It had been a really easy way of making things appear more realistic, in the early days of roleplaying, because having more HP meant you could survive more attacks. But the fact is that you don't REALLY withstand more attacks, you only survive them because you know how not to have to withstand them.
To make it plain, I am dreaming (and currently designing and realising) of a game where EVERYBODY gets roughly the same amùount of HP. Why would anyone survive a spear blow through the eye, because he has 20'000 HP? A blow through the eye is deadly for everyone, no exception. There is no one able to say he has survived "decollation", or beheading... Then why would anyone be able to say so in a game? If the only answer you can think of is "because it's a game! duh!" then get away, and start thinking on your own.
The equivalent has been reached in more recent games, by the modification of the basic gameplay. Everyone has roughly the same amount of HP, but not everybody has the same skills. Find two persons weighing roughly teh same two hundred and fifty pounds, and pit them up against each other. If you find a heavy wight boxer, and a heavy weight drinking bar-brawler, there are many chances that the bar-brawler will end up on top, because he doesn't fight fair, and has a few extra-moves and options that the boxer won't even think of. But the boxer will only need ONE hit to take the brawler out, because he has SKILL. And he packs a mean punch, too.
The same can apply in every sphere. You can be a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, and have many different skills and moves available to you, or you can choose to focalise on one or two areas, building something more specific. You can ask an axe-wielder to take a tree down and see if he can. He is probably used to swinging his axe and has broad muscles, but that's pretty much it. Trees don't move or fight back much. Usually, that is. Try to find a butcher, and ask him to fight using his big cleaver, and you've got something dreadful! Because although he has big muscles and some ease using his big cleaver, his isn't used to enemies standing upright! He will continuously try chopping down with the cleaver, and you'll just laugh him off by stepping aside and punching his nose.
Skills are what differentiate people. Not the number of HP. Skills and experiences. SO I agree with whoever talked about Kengo's system. First off, you train in a specific training area, and discover moves. Then you go out and actually USE them, and THEN you get real combat experience. You can train as much as you want, combat experience should be what counts,when it comes down to fighting. Maybe combat experience could be a separate gauge, which would deplete when encountering an enemy, and would fill as you hit him? the lower the gauge, the more your skills are reduced, because of fear? A bigger enemy, or someone more skilled would deplete that gauge faster? I can't seriously imagine fighting a dragon like fighting a wolf or a bar-brawler. The danger isn't just the same. Maybe using moves that haven't been mastered in combat yet lowers that gauge too? what do you say?
Anyway, I concur with the general agreement, names and levels shouldn't appear in games, anywhere. Be they MMOs or single players, what should differentiate a good player from a bad player is their self-preservation instinct. It's easy enough to charge a bull and attack it using your toothpick if you know for a fact that the bull can trample you for fourty minutes before you cough, but it's a little different if you know for a fact that you are faster than it, but if it catches you on a horn, it will have AMPLE time to trmaple you to death, because you won't be able to move afterwards...
It had been a really easy way of making things appear more realistic, in the early days of roleplaying, because having more HP meant you could survive more attacks. But the fact is that you don't REALLY withstand more attacks, you only survive them because you know how not to have to withstand them.
To make it plain, I am dreaming (and currently designing and realising) of a game where EVERYBODY gets roughly the same amùount of HP. Why would anyone survive a spear blow through the eye, because he has 20'000 HP? A blow through the eye is deadly for everyone, no exception. There is no one able to say he has survived "decollation", or beheading... Then why would anyone be able to say so in a game? If the only answer you can think of is "because it's a game! duh!" then get away, and start thinking on your own.
The equivalent has been reached in more recent games, by the modification of the basic gameplay. Everyone has roughly the same amount of HP, but not everybody has the same skills. Find two persons weighing roughly teh same two hundred and fifty pounds, and pit them up against each other. If you find a heavy wight boxer, and a heavy weight drinking bar-brawler, there are many chances that the bar-brawler will end up on top, because he doesn't fight fair, and has a few extra-moves and options that the boxer won't even think of. But the boxer will only need ONE hit to take the brawler out, because he has SKILL. And he packs a mean punch, too.
The same can apply in every sphere. You can be a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, and have many different skills and moves available to you, or you can choose to focalise on one or two areas, building something more specific. You can ask an axe-wielder to take a tree down and see if he can. He is probably used to swinging his axe and has broad muscles, but that's pretty much it. Trees don't move or fight back much. Usually, that is. Try to find a butcher, and ask him to fight using his big cleaver, and you've got something dreadful! Because although he has big muscles and some ease using his big cleaver, his isn't used to enemies standing upright! He will continuously try chopping down with the cleaver, and you'll just laugh him off by stepping aside and punching his nose.
Skills are what differentiate people. Not the number of HP. Skills and experiences. SO I agree with whoever talked about Kengo's system. First off, you train in a specific training area, and discover moves. Then you go out and actually USE them, and THEN you get real combat experience. You can train as much as you want, combat experience should be what counts,when it comes down to fighting. Maybe combat experience could be a separate gauge, which would deplete when encountering an enemy, and would fill as you hit him? the lower the gauge, the more your skills are reduced, because of fear? A bigger enemy, or someone more skilled would deplete that gauge faster? I can't seriously imagine fighting a dragon like fighting a wolf or a bar-brawler. The danger isn't just the same. Maybe using moves that haven't been mastered in combat yet lowers that gauge too? what do you say?
Anyway, I concur with the general agreement, names and levels shouldn't appear in games, anywhere. Be they MMOs or single players, what should differentiate a good player from a bad player is their self-preservation instinct. It's easy enough to charge a bull and attack it using your toothpick if you know for a fact that the bull can trample you for fourty minutes before you cough, but it's a little different if you know for a fact that you are faster than it, but if it catches you on a horn, it will have AMPLE time to trmaple you to death, because you won't be able to move afterwards...
Just a quick tip - never ever put a Monter Lore skill or similar in a MMORPG. People will just use Online Guides. You'll actually make it even easier for them to create Monster Guides at first and then no one will be using the skill. I hate this fact, but we (Game Designers) should always consider the Internet nowadays.
It's the same with anything that relies on separating character knowledge from player knowledge, like alchemy recipes.
It's the same with anything that relies on separating character knowledge from player knowledge, like alchemy recipes.
Author
Well, I'm all for not showing your level, but rgarding your name, you can "give it" to other players, players you've known for some time and are confortable n sharing your name with them. You can also disclose your level of course.
The key concept here is leting the player decide.
I also have another concept I would like to see fleshed out: Player Uniqueness.
I envisioned a world where two staffs of power, oposites in ideology would fight for control. A White Staff for those following the way of peace and harmony, and a Dark Staff for those following the ways of death and destruction.
Only one player with a particular set of already developed atributed could yeld such a weapon, but he would be nearly undestructuble. Think Sauron in LotR.
Also, some spells should be written down in old books that need to be found, translated, etc... It shouldnt be just a "walk over the spell to pick up and use" deal...
All of this adds work of course, but it increases the immersiveness. One could really go Indiana Jones into a temple, after reading about it in a book that was translated, and knowing more or less what to expect and fear, and design the apropriate party for the contraptions one would find inside...
The key concept here is leting the player decide.
I also have another concept I would like to see fleshed out: Player Uniqueness.
I envisioned a world where two staffs of power, oposites in ideology would fight for control. A White Staff for those following the way of peace and harmony, and a Dark Staff for those following the ways of death and destruction.
Only one player with a particular set of already developed atributed could yeld such a weapon, but he would be nearly undestructuble. Think Sauron in LotR.
Also, some spells should be written down in old books that need to be found, translated, etc... It shouldnt be just a "walk over the spell to pick up and use" deal...
All of this adds work of course, but it increases the immersiveness. One could really go Indiana Jones into a temple, after reading about it in a book that was translated, and knowing more or less what to expect and fear, and design the apropriate party for the contraptions one would find inside...
I thing Never Winter Nights does a better job in role playing possibilites then in an MMORPG.
It really depends on the serve ryou are playing NWN.
But what makes it possible, Ithink, is that in NWN you have DMs that can do whatever they want in their server.
It really depends on the serve ryou are playing NWN.
But what makes it possible, Ithink, is that in NWN you have DMs that can do whatever they want in their server.
This topic is closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Popular Topics
Advertisement
