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Consoles or PC?

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Hello there! I've been gone for a while, but now I'm back [smile]! Some people told me that the real game industry is running on consoles and that the PCs only hold about 10-20 pecent of the market. They said that although the PCs are far more advanced (allowing for better games), some factors (like piracy) realy restrain a small company to flurish. What do you think about this? If somebody would make a nice game, do you think he/she should port it to consoles? Is console programming actualy possible for, let's say, an indie company? I mean I don't think all the licenses and the devtools required to make up something are quite cheap... I'm kind of new to the console stuff, so please excuse me if this was a bad post [lol].

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Legal console programming is almost impossible for a beginner. This is just because consoles companies won't publish titles from unknown individuals. Also you may require to spend a good ammount of money in order to buy the dev kits (about $10k each).

But in fact there is an alternative. Torque game engine may allow you to write a PC game and as its portable you may port it to a console easilly in case a console publisher is interested. Maybe you can find some info about this in the GarageGames website.

Luck!
Guimo

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PC's are cool: they're more versatile then consoles and they're more cutting-edge. Just remember that PC users almost always had the chance to play online games, while console users only just have.
Programming for pc has also had the tendency to be alot easier over history. (PSX assembler, remember :) )
Conclusion: Overal, the PC IS JUST BETTER then any console.

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It's important to keep in mind that "indie" can mean different things. It can mean a group of people without direct backing from a major publisher who are producing a game for the retail market, and who are spending significant amounts of money on production; or it can mean a few college kids who are learning how to make games. For the first group, console development is still difficult, but is becoming more and more feasible. Also, indie developers have been known to release a game for PC, get publisher backing based on the game's success there, then port it to a console. (This was the case with Alien Hominid, if I recall correctly.) The second group probably is not going to do console development.

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That's an awefully totalitarian statement, GodModder, especially for a 'controversial' topic like the console vs. pc debate.

And, no, PCs aren't cutting edge. I know one person who has a computer that is better than a 360. Alot of people I know have computers not too much worse, but they definately aren't any more 'cutting edge' than a 360. Sure, it 3 years, people will have better PCs than the consoles out then, but that statement simply isn't always true.

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The technology in the 360 has been around for years and was developed by... PC's! The only reason why not everyone has that technology in their PC's is the price. You cannot possibly say consoles are more advanced then PC's, looking at there age policy...
PC's started gaming and still do. Think about it: programmers learn to program on PC's, PC's still have a large share in the market and some games still come out exclusively on PC which proves developers are still aware of the true power that the PC harnasses.

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Quote:
Original post by godmodder
The technology in the 360 has been around for years and was developed by... PC's! The only reason why not everyone has that technology in their PC's is the price. You cannot possibly say consoles are more advanced then PC's, looking at there age policy...

Er, have you even looked at the specs for the 360? The CPU architecture is of a design which is not available in any PC, and which is on the cutting-edge of CPU design.

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Quote:
Original post by godmodder
The technology in the 360 has been around for years

For years, eh? I'd like you to point me to where I can buy the same graphics card then. I'm particularly curious about how I'd have bought one years ago. Or a triple-core CPU? Does your 2-3 year old computer have that?


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and was developed by... PC's!

Err, by PC's?
I thought it was developed by Microsoft, IBM and ATI?

I'm pretty sure my pc has never designed any consoles.

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The only reason why not everyone has that technology in their PC's is the price. You cannot possibly say consoles are more advanced then PC's, looking at there age policy...

Sure you can. If you look at an "average" PC, the 360 is years ahead.

Think about it: programmers learn to program on PC's
[/quote}
So what?

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PC's still have a large share in the market and some games still come out exclusively on PC which proves developers are still aware of the true power that the PC harnasses.

But consoles have a larger share, and more games come out exclusively on consoles, which proves, what, exactly?

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PC's started gaming and still do. Think about it: programmers learn to program on PC's

So what you're saying is that the books we learnt to read from are also better than the books we read later on?
And the tricycle I had when I was 4 "harnesses more true power" than, say, a car?

I think there's a flaw in your logic.
Just because programmers *started* on a PC, doesn't make the PC particularly superior in itself.

In any case, PC games aren't going away any time soon. It's a much more versatile platform than consoles, and if you've got the money to upgrade it, it can usually be made more powerful than any console.
But that doesn't change the fact that consoles are more popular for gaming than PC's, and that most games are made for consoles.

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Quote:
Original post by godmodder
Even cutting-edge has been designed on a pc almost 2 years ago

Heh, you mean because there aren't any VLSI-CAD programs for the XBox? That's a rather..... unique way of looking at it. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the relative merits of console versus PC development.

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Quote:
Original post by godmodder
The technology in the 360 has been around for years and was developed by... PC's! The only reason why not everyone has that technology in their PC's is the price. You cannot possibly say consoles are more advanced then PC's, looking at there age policy...
PC's started gaming and still do. Think about it: programmers learn to program on PC's, PC's still have a large share in the market and some games still come out exclusively on PC which proves developers are still aware of the true power that the PC harnasses.


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"The technology in the 360 has been around for years and was developed by... PC's!"

Cutting edge PCs are cutting edge. The average PC is not.
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"The only reason why not everyone has that technology in their PC's is the price."

A very valid reason.
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"You cannot possibly say consoles are more advanced then PC's, looking at there age policy..."

?
You must be at least 15 to ride this console.
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"PC's still have a large share in the market and some games still come out exclusively on PC which proves developers are still aware of the true power that the PC harnasses."

PCs do have a large share in the market, and some games still come out exclusively on PC. But many more games come out exclusively on consoles, because the PC just isn't the dominant market anymore.

This doesn't make PCs a bad market. Just a smaller market.

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"PC's started gaming and still do."

And still do what? Technically, arcade machines started gaming... the computers that ran SpaceWar could hardly be called PCs.
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"programmers learn to program on PC's"

Where else are you going to learn to program?

You may have a point you are trying to get across. I'm not sure. But I don't see it in your post. PCs are not a dead market, but they are definitely not such a strong market that you should advise against console development. That would be ignoring a particularly strong market...

Edit:

Quote:
"Even cutting-edge has been designed on a pc almost 2 years ago"

Is cutting-edge an established quantity now?

[Edited by - JBourrie on April 20, 2006 4:26:35 PM]

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Multi-core technology isn't exactly "new", it's more like "in". The idea has been around for years, only waiting for cpu-vendors to implement it. It's actually a quite straightforward technique.

Microsoft, IBM, they all developed these technologies WITH pc's.

Consoles are indeed more advanced then the pc's of people who wouldn't even play a game even if they received money for it...

Consoles have a larger marketshare, because they're actively promoted and there are more "species" of consoles then PC's in consumer terms...

Console games are in fact developed on a PC with something called a compiler :)
It's like the chicken-egg scenario.

As for the flaw in my logic, I believe it's up to you again to prove it :)
I love this sort of discussions at night...

JBourrie, by age policy I meant that consoles are only redesigned once every 5 years or so, which makes them low-end by that time

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Guest Anonymous Poster
COnsole processors are just different.. not nessicarily better.. a high end desktop pc will run circles around an xbox360. If the 360 has branch prediction it's of very limited amount, the cache sizes are smaller too.

The reasons that consoles display so much power, and why I think they have most of the market, is because they are a known quantity.

you KNOW every console of a certain brand has the same amount of memory, the same video chipset, the same processor, the same bugs, the same limitations, the same features.

These things can be exploited and used to develop a game that is tweaked to perform on that platform.

that can't be done on the PC.. code has to be much more general, and handle a much larger spectrum of hardware.

on a console you know exactly what your cpu clock speed is, how long a cpu cycle takes, how many cycles an instruction stalls for, the speed of the memory, the bandwidth of the bus.. all of this is known, and stuff can be written to exact specification.

it ends up being better for the consumer because the code is more tailored to a specific gaming experience.. no tweaking with settings.. it is what it is.

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Quote:
Original post by godmodder
As for the flaw in my logic, I believe it's up to you again to prove it :)

No, it isn't. There's no affirmative demonstration of a non sequitur. Your "chicken and egg" idea is similarly silly.

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Edit: Shortened because the post seemed long.


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Microsoft, IBM, they all developed these technologies WITH pc's.

I made a cake with my oven. I shouldn't eat the cake, though, because it came from the oven. Maybe I should eat the oven?

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Console games are in fact developed on a PC with something called a compiler :)
It's like the chicken-egg scenario.

Yep, and the egg is tasty, plus it makes a good emulsifier.


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As for the flaw in my logic, I believe it's up to you again to prove it :)
I love this sort of discussions at night...

Ah, so it's late night trolling.

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I totally agree with the anonymous poster: PC's are slower because they've got all sorts of operations running in the background that aren't necessary for gaming purposes. It's true programmers can fully tweak their programs to run super-slick on consoles, while PC API's must cover every single situation, which makes them inherently slower.

JBourre, I wish you weren't that sarcastic, I've come to these forums to discuss, not to read junk.

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Quote:
Original post by godmodder
Consoles have a larger marketshare, because they're actively promoted and there are more "species" of consoles then PC's in consumer terms...
The PS2 marketshare alone dwarfs the total number of PC gamers.
Quote:
Console games are in fact developed on a PC with something called a compiler :)
That's...not even relevant.

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JBourre, I wish you weren't that sarcastic, I've come to these forums to discuss, not to read junk.


Actually, it appears that you came to this forum to troll... bored at night and trying to get people riled up. I may be wrong. My first post was not sarcastic, but your responses seem so fanboyish that I can't help but be a bit of a smartass.

Your responses are not logical. The absurd statements I have been making are no stranger than claiming that PCs are superior because you compile console games on them. Except mine are meant to be humorous.

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Quote:
Original post by godmodder
Indeed, there was no affirmative confirmation of a non sequitur! I totally agree with you.


Wow. You just don't get it.

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So after all of that nonsense: I'll reply to the person who actually made the thread to begin with.
Quote:
Hello there! I've been gone for a while, but now I'm back !

Hello.

Quote:
Some people told me that the real game industry is running on consoles and that the PCs only hold about 10-20 pecent of the market. They said that although the PCs are far more advanced (allowing for better games), some factors (like piracy) realy restrain a small company to flurish.

True. The piracy issue is especially bad, because most of the ways that currently fix piracy end up causing technical issues on some machines. Companies who make casual games often don't do much for piracy protection, though, because casual gamers are less likely to go looking for illegal copies.
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If somebody would make a nice game, do you think he/she should port it to consoles? Is console programming actualy possible for, let's say, an indie company?

Someone before mentioned Torque, which is a great place to start. Also, if you write your game with the platform specific modules (graphics, sound, input) very separated from the actual gameplay code, ports can go pretty smoothly (I wish that's what we had right now).

Finally, keep in mind the specific needs of different consoles. You shouldn't design things that work great in DirectX but are clunky in OpenGL if you plan to port to consoles (and vice versa). Flexibility is the key.

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I mean I don't think all the licenses and the devtools required to make up something are quite cheap...

Nintendo Revolution devkits will be very cheap, but the licensing procedure will still be harsh (possibly harsher).

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I'm kind of new to the console stuff, so please excuse me if this was a bad post .

No post is a bad post if you're asking questions. :)

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