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Ogre WIP ZBrush/3DSMax/Deep paint3D

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Hi Here is an Ogre I made for the community in Z Brush, I am just getting the hang of tool so... OK detailing and now trying colors for the head. descriOgre head The body has yet to get more details as skin pors etc. descriOgre head WIP. Still looking for work. Now a small work finders fee.... A rendered image. head only skulls made with 3DSMax8 only normal mapped and ready A rendered image. head only skulls made with 3DSMax8 only normal mapped and ready I have successfully UV mapped the Ogre as one big chunk using 3dsmax pelf tool to optimize it for 3D engine rendering in games and I used Z Mapper to do the normal map works really well.

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I'll continue my crits here, in response, then wait for a WIP.

-Can I see a wireframe of the lo-poly model?
-Use references, or be prepared to write up a logic, history, and explanation for how it got that way. If your Ogre is living in an earthlike environment, use references, it'll end up saving you work and looking better. If you were doing a martian type creature, you'd get something believable by really making up a history for him. You'll be able to tell the good character designs from the bad character designs this way. A good character designer can rattle off for an hour about this character, and their character will be extremely believable, even if extremely stylized. However, a bad character designer won't even come up with a personal names or name for the species, where he lives, what he eats, etc., in a detailed sense, and his character will be full of design inefficiencies and contradictions. Its a pretty typical ogre, so it looks OK, but figure out what type of ogre he is, does he live in a cave or in a swamp or in a forest, what does he eat, who are his predators and who are his prey. Yes, alot of work and design, but your character will be infinitely better for it. You can figure out things such as jewelry to what muscles should be more defined by it.
-You won't lose the silhouette with another role of fat. You'll help it. If the silhouette isn't anatomically correct, it'll look strange, strong or not.
-In the face, I'm looking specifically at the laughlines/nasalbursomethingorother furrow. Also realize how normal maps will deform. You can't (easily) do things like add in laughlines and wrinkles when the face deforms, you need to use geometry to do this. Look at HL2. Alyx's face has IIRC about 3000+ polygons (the character is over 8000 polies). That's how they get such good facial deformation, and things like laughlines when she smiles. So you may have to work those things into the normal map if you want them to be there without excessive geometry. Again, look at reference: humans, bulldogs, monkeys, pigs, anything with a similarity.
-Lastly, watch out for things like the vein on the back of his neck. That's a basic ZBrush alpha brush anyone can spot from a mile away. For things like veins, your better off using a normal round brush on a very high-res version with Projection Master, which will give you better control over where his veins are.
-Overall, he lacks some specificity because you just need more reference. You seem to be learning ZBrush well though. It is a great tool.

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2152 polygons and counting for the head.

There are other objects as well not yet added like;

* Eyes
* Teeth on the inside

And I might have to chamfer the edges where the head has sharp edges if I want to use tessellation that would add a couple of more polygons as well.

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You can optimize the head bigtime. Just go around collapsing edges and see what you can get away with (and fix the teeth, bigtime). Its interesting you are saying its pelt mapped so its optimized to run in a game engine, but yet the poly count is way higher than neccessary. Basics first, my friend.

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Actually I was thinking more in the lines of bumping up the polygon count to get better use of my vertex shader.

And the head and the rest of the head is intended to be animated in detail.

Yes there are a few polygons to be saved, I can do it later Max let’s me collapse vertices without effecting the UV mapping. But in the big picture of any project know a day’s hardware can handle this triangle count.

If you look at Unreal Engine 3 and the demos there they are using in-game models that has a staggering polygon count. This model is about 10x smaller polygon count right now.

Yes I modeled full characters at 600 polygons before and optimized them down to 300 polygons. But that was 1999... It's OK if I add a zero to my characters today if they are going to be in close range and full animated in every detail.

Now I have to keep to quads and regular sized quads to get nice tessellation so the problems of modeling these days with DirectX10 displacement shaders and stuff is a bit to opposite from “yesterdays” modeling techniques. I am trying to adapt to that now. Yes I also want to go in there and see how many polygons I can cut out, but I have to save that initiative for later.

I am more worried about where I place my triangles and seams and if the final RT rendering and animation will look good at all.…

Teeth is the wrong shape still I will flesh them out soon.

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You misunderstood what I meant. I meant your model is inefficient, not too high poly. Polies are fine, as long as they are efficient. But there are numerous instances on the head (especially the chin, forehead) that can be optimized. A good model and bad model are different because the amount of polies, they are different because bad models aren't efficient.
Just like you clean up code after you work on it, so it doesn't repeat procedures and do the same thing twice, you optimize a model so you get all you can out of every polygon. If you feel like because of larger poly limits, you don't have to be wise and efficient with polygons, your never going to get an art job. Its a reality of the industry, and of everything one does. If you slack and say 'who's gonna care anyway,' you're not doing your job good enough, and for someone seeking work, who must show that he's better than people already in the industry (which is why its difficult to break in as an artist), its unacceptable.

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There are places on the mesh where the same loops or rows of quads (whatever they are called) are squeezed tighter and at those particular places they are might not do much use but mostly the tight place is the face where they do count.

The cheek quads continue to the ear where they are needed and onwards. If you turn the head upside down and a bit back you can see that all the edges goes around the head. Well almost all of them and underneath they form really big polygons. The cheek extra line of quads was also done to move a couple of big triangles and replace them with quads. By making new smaller triangles behind the teeth by the nose where they can't been seen. This forces me to pack more polygons on the cheek area to hide those triangles.
Maybe I could have done another move it like chess almost, just figuring out what to do can take up vast amount of time but I need to get it done, I don’t like to vast time. But I found a triangle know in the forehead I can hide behind the ear.

descriOgre head



Head fixed:

descriOgre head



[Edited by - Sand on May 10, 2006 3:07:24 AM]

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Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
Red are edge loops you should try deleting.
Blue are areas that need to be cleaned up.
You can use triangles, especially in places that don't deform. That's the only way to make a game-efficient head. You can't continue the front-of-nose edges around the back of the head, you close them off before the hairline. You don't continue the bottom-of-lip edges down the neck (unless the larynx is very important), you close them off. And the only reason you'd want those cheek polygons so close is to make a crease, but to make a good crease you're generally going to need more polys than that. Its important, especially when you're learning, that you DO go over your model, like a chess-game, or else you're never going to learn how to make a good model, you'll only know what a good model looks like, not how to get there/an easier way to get there than you took.

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