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eladh

Game servers

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eladh    122
Hi, This is an old topic I raise once more. When developing your game-servers, should you start from scratch? if any of you have relied on something to start with, I'd be happy if you can share it with everybody. For instance- Sun's Project Darkstar might be something to consider, but it could be too young to use this year. Any other alternatives you've considred/are using? Elad.

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I suppose you could start from scratch but the old saying seems to come to mind "no reason in re-inventing the wheel." So if you can find code that is already mostly in place or specific wrappers already made. I would use/mod them to speed your development process. Especially if your a single programmer. I don't have any to offer because I usually don't work on the servers, but at least some guidance.

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pulpfist    528
Im looking at a C++ wrapper called UDT right now for a game project of mine.
It is supposed to provide reliable transfer using the UDP protocol.
If it turns out to be stable and fast enough, I might use it to write a "from scratch" server/client.

If you consider using C/C++ you might wanna take a look

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superpig    1825
If you're talking MMO servers, you should probably also take a look at Quazal. I was going to point you at Butterfly.net too, but they seem to have disappeared and I can't figure out why.

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__ODIN__    479
Raknet comes highly recommended from a lot of people; might fit what you want to do.

If you want just a simplified reliable UDP lib, ENET is a pretty decent, lightweight implementation, which has been proven in a simple FPS.

Don't re-invent the wheel; in this particular case, fitting the wheel to different cars ('nix, windows, etc) is a real pain, and it has a tendency to spectacularly blow up the vehicle if you make the least mistake in building the wheel.

Allan

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ronkfist    100
I wouldn't call writing your own game server software re-inventing the wheel, your going to learn way more if you try to come up with your own solutions.

Building your own OS to make a game is what I would call re-inventing the wheel.

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superpig    1825
Quote:
Original post by ronkfist
I wouldn't call writing your own game server software re-inventing the wheel,
Why not?

Quote:
your going to learn way more if you try to come up with your own solutions.
True. It comes down to whether you're more interested in learning, or more interested in getting it done.

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ronkfist    100
That's generally the problem here when ppl who have absolutly no idea start asking howto make games.
I see the "dont try re-inventing the wheel" answer way to much, they prolly start thinking it's a bad idea to try and work out their own solutions and just go with some pre-built solution.

Look at my rating, having your own ideas is not appreciated here. ;)

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Ravuya    135
Quote:
Original post by ronkfist
I see the "dont try re-inventing the wheel" answer way to much, they prolly start thinking it's a bad idea to try and work out their own solutions and just go with some pre-built solution.


I suggest using as much pre-made stuff as possible. So do the other people who have been horribly scarred from trying to write it all themselves. It is a rite of passage, and there's not much we can do about keeping "real programmer" newbies from doing the same thing to themselves and ending up as very bitter, largely unaccomplished moderators. [grin]

For some, though, programming everything might not be their most fervent wish in life. There's nothing wrong with using other people's tech -- I use other peoples' scripting languages, graphics toolkits, and basic utility functions because I'd rather write a game with what little free time I have between classes.

Also, tool-making usually leads to more tool-making, which psychologically conditions us to never get games done. I can name about a billion members on this site that have fallen into OCD tool-making behaviours.

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ronkfist    100
You make it sound like a disease lol.
Oh well, ppl who really want to make their own frameworks will find the right path after a while, I guess its an instinct.

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pulpfist    528
Quote:

I see the "dont try re-inventing the wheel" answer way to much

I have to agree with that.
Ofcourse, its a smart thing to say, but when you hear it more than thousand times it doesnt sound smart anymore.
I hear it a lot from people coming from universities. Im sure that every student/scientist will toss this at you when you struggle the most trying to learn something new. If there is one thing they all know, it is this statement. No matter if they flunked in all other classes.

When it comes to this thread, the OP didnt say much about hes current status as programmer, or if he needed a "top nodge" solution for hes project or not. Not to mention that he writes in "beginners forum" and has 1000 (default) rating as of this writing. So if you lost 300ish rate points right here, Id say you have been treated like poo. Sorry to hear that (if the rating matter to you)

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ronkfist    100
Quote:
Original post by pulpfist
So if you lost 300ish rate points right here, Id say you have been treated like poo. Sorry to hear that (if the rating matter to you)

I'm trying to get a negative rating now, then I can tell ppl my rating got so high it just overflowed [smile].

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__ODIN__    479
Quote:
Original post by ronkfist
I wouldn't call writing your own game server software re-inventing the wheel, your going to learn way more if you try to come up with your own solutions.


Not marking you down :)

I'm all for him writing his own game server; as a learning experience I fully recommend that he should do just that. What I wouldn't advice is getting down to the metal (UDP, winsock, BSD sockets), simply because they tend to have unreliable (not as in packet-loss) behaviour when 'unexpected' situations happen.

There's also a whole bunch of caveats with basic sockets when it comes to porting; both from a performance point of view, and from the view of handling a different set of unexpected special cases. That in addition to all the basic caveats that just come from basic networking :)

Once he's learnt the basics of how to send and receive data, handling multiple connections, synching data, handling dead-recogning, and wants to go back and learn the 'down to the metal stuff', he'll be better equipped. I'm just worried that if he jumps straight into that hole, he won't be comming back to networking at all.

Different opinions is all. DO let me know if the rating wraps, btw... if I see you've got 32,123+ rating tomorrow, I expect we'll probably be seeing a lot more flame-war activity in the Lounge :)

Allan

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