Quote:Original post by Radiostorm
I have to agree with the other posters. Everyone is sick of the human-dwarf-elf trinity of races. Make up some new races. Anything will do, as long as we haven't seen it before.

Keep in mind that it *is* possible to make an interesting human/dwarf/elf/orc setting. Warcraft managed it. They've taken these boring standard races, and made them their own. An orc in Warcraft is nowhere near the same as the standard D&D orc. Warhammer 40k has orcs and elves too (although they call them orks and eldar, respectively), and again, they have nothing to do with the cliched D&D counterparts.

It is possible to take the standard races that people recognize, and give them your own flavor, and invent your own setting for them. I just didn't get the impression from your original post that you were planning to do that.

Quote:Original post by Talroth

Quote:Original post by Ezbez
The moment I saw this title the idea of having a gargoyle race popped into my mind. I think that this could make a really interesting class to play. Give them the ability to change to stone, during which time they have much greater health and armor and slowly regenerate health. Or something like that. Could be good for Warriors, but could also be good for something like a Mage/Wizard where this is a good way to protect yourself once enemies get in close. You might or might not want to give them the ability to fly for short distances. Mabye just a boosted jump.

Could be alot of programming and artwork, though.

Actually, I think that technically barbarian is the closest to a race there; Elves, Dwarfs, and Humans are actually species.

I think a gargoyle would be a little more interesting if they were very powerful, but could only be alive at night. at sunrise they would turn to stone. You would have to find a safe place to wait out the day. When you're stone you are massive amounts of HP/armour, however you are basically defenseless unless you have non gargoyle allies to guard you in the day.

Yeah that would be cool. You could make it like Elder Scrolls III Morrowind, in the sense that you have to rest so you turn to stone. Then after a "day" or how ever long you want to rest for it would say, " While you were resting a ______ attacked you causing your ______ stat to decrese by _____ % "

Quote:Original post by Talroth
Why don't more people go with something unique, like, 10 different human kingdoms (or even less) they can each have a different art style, that leads to slightly different weapons and armour?

Age of Empires I, II, and III.

Quote:Original post by Spoonbender
It is possible to take the standard races that people recognize, and give them your own flavor, and invent your own setting for them. I just didn't get the impression from your original post that you were planning to do that.

Yes, but it's just that much more original when you start from scratch rather than pounding originality from hardened clay.

Instead of starting from a Human/Elf/Dwarf/Etc race base and then asking "What does each race do?". You should start from the question "Why do I need different races?"

If the answer to that question is just for looks, then don't put too much effort into it (and you don't need to read the rest of my post).

If on the other hand, the reason for races is more than just flavour, then you now need to ask "What would the purpose of each race be?"

If each race is to have a unique ability, then that is a good place to start. You should, list the unique abilities that you would like each race to have. Don't let one race be a watered down combination of two or more other races. This will make that race rarely worth takeing and make the races less unique (and that the only reason that they are there are just for flavour rather than gameplay).

Once you have a set of abilities that you would like you can then start thinking of races that match those abilities. For instance if one of your abilities was the ability to make lots of fast attacks, then an insect like race might be good (lots of hands).

You can also allow races to have more than 1 ability (so the insect race might also have the ability to fly, have natural armour, etc).

Once you have the abilities you need to start on dissadvantages. For each adavnatage you need to add disadvantages to balance out the advantages, for instance the incet race might not have the ability to wield weapons (or they might be more expensive) and not be able to wear armour (wrong shape). This gives them a unique gameplay position, but also gives them a payoff that the players need to make choices about.


Some suggestions:
Humans: No real advantages or disadvantages
Insects: They have natural armour and multiple attacks (lots of arms). However they can not weild weapons or wear armour. They also have a limited flight that allows them to fall form any height without damage and to jump higher and further than all other races (roughly 10 times a human) and can use them to move quickly in a burst of speed.
Spectrals: A Spectral looks like a ghost, but can not walk through solid matter. They are hard to see (partial invisability) and physical attacks don't effect them as much. Magical attcks, however, do more damge to them and they also give off an aura of magic that most mages can easily see. They can use weapons and armour noramlly, but these items do not turn invisible and can easily be seen by anyone. They have a natural attack that increases in power if they let it build up (this take time).
Colosus: This race is physically strong and highly resistant to magic. They are taller than a human and look like they are made out of rock. They are tough and deal a lot of damge if they hit, but are slow. Because they are slow they are not very effctive with ranged weapons (if the target dodges to the side a lot they can not aim quick enough) and also because of their limited speed they are easy targets for other people with range weapons.

I based these races (the human is an exception as it is a base standard) off of a Scissors/Paper/Rock system. The Insects will be able to move quickly and be able to out manouver the Spectral, the Spectral will be able to beat the Colossus in ranged and the Colossus can beat the Insect in melee. But this is not absolute. There are methods that can be used by each Race to beat the others. Each race is unique and has more than just flavour, they also have distinct gameplay elements that the players can use in the game.

If you want different results then start doing different things - Einstein

Then why don't you start with the other side. Instead of playing with Human, elves and so on. Then why don't you sort undeads as races in a dreadful world where you fight to control other undeads. You may select between many free willed undeads like Vampires, Wights, Ghasts, ghouls... and raise in power. Like starting like a fledging ghoul and slowly win more feats (climb walls, sun resistance and the like). Game objectives may be to destroy your own creator in order to be free (your creator may be a powerful lich). The game style may be from gore to really fun (like Many Calavera).

Or you may be an orc rising from the horde to be a king/shaman/sorcerer and get the control of the horde... demonstrating your strength.

Demons/Devils may be other way to see it... going from hell to hell trying to pick objects in order to destroy Mefisto (or any other bad guy you recall). Or just in order to take you to purgatory... read Dante's Divine Comedy for ideas.

Go to the outer planes and take part of the Gith/Githyanki wars... or become part of the forest in a druidic adventure where you can be a driad or a troll. Go undersea and create races from merfolk, nagas, create an underwater race of Mind Flayers... there are endless probabilities... you don't have to stick to common patterns.

Luck with your design!
Guimo

Thanks for all the posts, I appreciate both the negetive and the possitive.. for this game design is something that wont come into play for awhile.. im planning on taking a year to go over the design, again and again

For one reason why I choose the standard races such as Elves Humans, Dwarves, Barbarian,(Or thrall for lack of better name, But i like the way barbarian sounds) And Dark Elves.. to tell you the truth dark elves was my last race added. And in asking for non warrior type new races was a way to break the mold. Take some well loved races and then add some new.

Well.. It would be nice to break the mold by creating alot of cool stuff to go behind the race.. Such as Elves Being of Blue or Green Color, having a back ground and a culture.. But in my game design there nothing more than models.. for one to keep the design simple as can be, People will find there originality in the Class they choose as well as the skills they select.
But I could have a breaf story behind each Race, Such as there culture, when you select what race you want., And some Races could have 1 or 2 special featurs besides just the 4 basic stats.
Like Elves being able to camoflage themselves. (50%) And Dwarves having a unique ability to feel vibrations through the ground. (giving them a small radar)
Or other unique features..
I do appreciate the posts that push me to be more original.. You have alot of good ideas.

I was thinking about a Small Woodland creature with fur.. (No story behind it yet) but would make a great mage.

I love the idea about a gargoyal wizard.. sounds realy cool

My goal is to have atleast
Human
Dwarf
Elf
barbarian
and have 3 more spots open to new monsters/races (Mayby no dark elf.. it has been done to much)

Any more posts or suggestions (Thanks grammer man) would be great.

Ideas for monster races (kind of blatantly ripped off):

Mimic- normally looks like just a blob, but can mimic a normal object or ooze through tight spaces like under doors. Suited for the rogue class. Has low defence and running speed, but very high melee attack strength.

Lich Stones (aka Daleks)- They look like somewhat cylindrical statues covered in a variety of mystic runes. However, each one containes the soul of an evil wizard who had sought immortailty. They can move around by floating inches above ground and their primary means of attack is though casting spells. With no arms, melee combat is right out (except perhaps for ramming opponents) but they can do things like open doors or levitate objects with magic.

Shadow Demon (aka Heartless)- A sort of undead, these pure-black creatures think through pure instinct. They live in communal areas similar to hives, scouts venture into the world either by normal walking or by moving through special portals. Their objective is to attack and bring back living prisoners to the hive, where if the victim cannot escape within one day, they will be transformed into a shadow demon as well. They may ally themselves with persons from other races to aid in the capture of others. But if weakness is found in their new ally they will have no qualms with capturing and consuming them as well. All stats are slightly lowered compared with the race they were before becoming a Shadow Demon.

Quote:Well.. It would be nice to break the mold by creating alot of cool stuff to go behind the race.. Such as Elves Being of Blue or Green Color, having a back ground and a culture..

This is headding along the lines of each "race" just being chrome/flavour. If you are looking to keep it simple then you should avoid having races in there just for flavour/chrome. If you are going to include the standard Elves/Dwarves/etc then you need to make them unique, and not in looks. You should have enough differences between races that, even though you use the smae model (say for placeholders while developing it) that you can get a distinctly different feel for each race. If the races at this stage seem too similar then you may need to change them to make them more distinct.

Quote:Like Elves being able to camoflage themselves. (50%)

I like this. If you have them able to change their form into that of a wooldland form (rocks, trees, bushes, etc) and have them so that they can't attack, turn or move while in this form (if they do it imediately cancels the form and they appear normal and there might be other ways to detect them). This would create a unique ability for the elf characters.

Quote:And Dwarves having a unique ability to feel vibrations through the ground. (giving them a small radar)

This is also a good idea for dwarves. If you limit this to underground and other rocky areas then you create limits on this ability. You might have this be able to detect a camoflaged elf, etc.

remember to also add disadvantages, Elves might have less health and strength than other races to offset their special ability. Dwarves might move slower and attack slower than others.

I dont know why but for some reason I would have thought that races would be just pritty models.. But being human i can be wrong and now I feel stupid about it. Realising that each Race should bring there own unique culture and (No better words) that would be easily applied in the game system. Course I had to read alot of posts that made me feel stupid, atleast my game would be better. (Note the game might never get made (Almost certainly), But my goal is to submite a good design doc when I apply for graphic design jobs..)

I love the idea about disadvantages.. that is so Key. Good with the bad

I would like to see elves as stronger than humans to tell you the truth. Hardy and strong, Mayby

Elverian
From the Stone cut woodlands of Mirr, the elves live in tribal villages, they have a barbaric society with no one to rule, yet in the love for one another they dwell in peace. It is to outsiders that they are cautious and in ages gone by wars have been many. Elves are a race filled with passion, which lies in there love for mother earth, They spend many years of there life Crafting there family history into the rock walls of mirr. Beautiful they are with mixtures of images and symbols to tell the stories of there lives.

Advantages:
Speed Burst (For running)/ Minor Fatigue after running )10% less damage and 10% less Armor
Camoflage / Attacking looses Camo, but gives about 50% invisibility while in camo.
Cant be tracked (no radar will pick them up)
Disadvantage:
(No magic Abilities for Elves)

Odian
This race is the closest to what we have hear on earth, Atleast in size and shape they almost look like humans. Yet they are not eager to shed blood lest needed and have no greed or malice with one another, they are a society of farmers and tree cutters who spend long ours each day working the lands. They do have a milirary society that fights well and hard yet they do what they can to avoid war. You can find them most easily at the temples where they worship the one true god.

Advantages:
Start with 100 more gold, And Gains 15 gold per game.
Protection Prayer (devine Shielding) A Prayer that causes a 100% protective shield around them for 15 seconds, cant attack or cast magic from it. Use once Per 10 minutes,

Disadvanteges:
Certain weapons manuver's they cant learn.


Dwarven
From the under ground they are not, but in the mountains high they dwell. A Race covered in blood for century after century they have gone to war. Yet now in recent times they find them selves few in number and secluded. In turn they have taken themselves to learning the magical craft. and in this persuit light has come into some of there eyes, and darkness into the others. even though they are devided by beleafes and behaviors from the persuit of magic they dwell with one another closely. the dwarves whove taken to the light have learned spells to aid and protect, to bless and to give back to those around them. While the other dwarves corrupted by the blood that has flowed in there vains from years of wars have taken to the arcane magics of the earth, from where this magic comes from is never talked about and in this path there skin has turned from pale to grey with withered faces and grey hair. crafting spells of fire and destruction. Yet they do not war... but practice there craft.

Advantages:
Pale Dwarf. Gains 25% advantage to healing and blessing spells
Grey Haired Dwarf. Gains 25% advantage to spells of destruction

Disadvantage
Pale Dwarf. Cant use destructive magics
Grey Haired Dwarf. Cant use Healing or Aiding magics


Thundorns
Of what great size and stature they are, They look much like the Odain yet are large in size, a size and a half over them. Yet in the size they do nothing to others, Never in there centuries have they gone to war. Not with elves or even the dwarves. They are a simple race doing what they can to survive in the mountain planes they call home. Infact to talk to them you always feel welcome and in there homes sitting down for a talk will you find your self when you visite. What are they doing in this land and how have they kept at peace, from most of the races the answere is easy. They don’t want to fight them and they don’t want to fight back. Its there size that worries them. But infact to be one of them will be a great pleasure

Advantages
50% Stronger than other races

Disadvantages
Cant use Destructive magic.
Have less agility


Gargoyle
Slender and thin. A Race devoting themselves to the arcane crafts of technology. They are the ones who first built the weapons we find in the world of Solar Eclipse. Excelent In craft they have built the longShot. A Gun that fires three times the length of the best bow found in all of the land.. There culture is quite simple, they dwell in the under ground caverns of faylen and rockwor. And they spend there days working on new technology and trying to find more uses for the crystals that are abundant in there under ground caves. One rule with them is not to cross them or make them angry for even amounst themselves they are very short and take offence with ease.

Advantages
Gain a free Arcane Weapon.
Ability to fly for short distances, Do to the short flights they take to get from one cavern wall to another.

Disadvantages
Are Weaker than other races and not very agile
Cant learn some weapon manuvers.


Frey
A creature of magical means, some say they are not born of natural means but forged together years ago by magical enegies, a combination of beast and man covered in fur yet they are small in size.. Smaller than all other races which even though they are not fond of combat they do have a advantage in there smaller stature. Where do they live one might ask, Some have taken to the cities and dwelling places of the Odain race and some with the elves, yet most find there home with the thundorns befrending them well. They have no place of there own yet are welcomed by most do to there helpful nature and quick speed to do tasks for people.

Advantages
Are very agile.
Gain 15% bonus to stats at night time

Disadvantages
Loose 15% bonus to stats during the day


This is all I have right now for races.. Im hoping to have atleast 7 but at most 9. For im the 3d graphic artist and am looking forward to doing as many diverse models as I can. (Again probebly wont form a team to create the game, but using it as a portfolio tool to get a real job instead of the minimum wage jobs I’ve been getting for 12 long years.)

Keep the posts coming if you can, And feel free to critisize anything that you think of. Thats the fire that forms the blade. (Unless its about my spelling, please)
Any new race sudjestions would be great.. I loved the Gargoyle.. And one guy (Cant remember but ill look him up.) Suggested a celestrial being. A creature with out natural form which might be cool.. Any more ideas on him would be great..

Thanks for all the help. More would be great

[Edited by - Manic_Gamer on May 23, 2006 11:50:46 AM]