Stories which are important to you
another one which makes me feel dizzy with genius is "the Yellow Wallpaper". Right now, I can't remember the name of the author, but go ahead, google it, and you'll just find the best piece of writing expressing the fall into madness, while remaining clearsighted all along. Just ahead of Mauypassant's "Le Horla", in my opinion...
Author
Okay, time to talk about myth analysis and how it is a useful tool for a writer. [smile]
Much of the writing advice I have given here on Gamedev has to do with analyzing what one subconsciously things is important and consciously exploring these themes in your fiction. Often you will find that that novel or videogame story you yearn to write has underlying similarities with other pieces of fiction which have struck you as particularly important (usually for mysterious subconscious reasons).
If you don't understand why a piece of fiction is important to you, you don't know where to start in attempting to capture this importance in your own writing. This is why myth analysis is awesome. [wink] Using the two-part process of symplifying a story to an outline of its essential archetypes and transformations, then comparing several stories to see what archetypes, transformations, and plot patterns they have in common, can help you figure out what you really want to write and why it matters.
Let's look at the Coyote and Roadrunner cartoons as a simple yet quite interesting example. What exactly happen is a typical coyote and roadrunner cartoon? The coyote wants to eat the roadrunner. The coyote's usual motivation is simple hunger, but it has also been portrayed variously as hunting instinct, desire to prove that he is smarter than the roadrunner, and desire to assuage feelings of inadequacy and frustration from having been defeated by the roadrunner so many times before. The coyote's general method of attacking the problem is to create a trap, usually with the aid of technology. So thematically, we have the coyote allied with the side of brains and civilization (humans), while we have the roadrunner allied with nature and luck (aka magical favoritsm by the world). Interestingly nature is not characterized by brawn and violence, as it is in many other stories, but instead with speed and slipperiness.
So, the coyote tries to use technology and wit to defeat the roadrunner, but always fails. Often, the coyote fails where he could logically be expected to have succeded. In some cases this is luck (his traps always get stuck while the roadrunner is in range, then go off and clobber the coyote). In other cases it goes beyond luck and into the realm of magic - the roadrunner runs through a painted doorway, while the coyote can't but instead crashes into the wall the doorway is painted on. Arguably, the coyote is actually fighting not the roadrunner but the whole world which favors the roadrunner and bends the laws of physics to protect it and smack down the coyote. This has a side effect of making the coyote more sympathetic to the audience, because people empathize with being treated unfairly and like to cheer for underdogs.
As poss74 says, one of the most notable things about this series of cartoons is that the coyote never gives up. He may wave a white flag after being particularly beaten, or resort to a vegetarian meal, but the audience knows that this is a temporary retreat, he's always going to regroup and try again.
Some other interesting factors to consider - there is only one roadrunner. This is important because if the roadrunner were ever eaten the plot would abruptly end because there wouldn't be anything left for the coyote to chase. There couldn't just be another roadrunner, because the emnity between the coyote and the roadrunner is personal. The coyote might even have to feel guilty for eating the roadrunner, and audience sympathy would be destroyed because the roadrunner hasn't been characterized as evil and deserving of death, just as annoying and deserving of being the one a boulder falls on for once. The roadrunner's death would also be unsatisfying because it is incompatible with the story universe - if death was possible, the coyote's injuries should have killed him long ago, and if the coyote was capable of winning despite the world being biased against him we should have seen the coyote making some sort of progress, pushing the limits of what the world can do to work against him, foreshadowing his final discovery of a way to finally outmanuver the world. But none of this happens because there are no limits on what the world can do to protect the roadrunner, since the world has magic which can mess with the laws of physics and the coyote has only technology which must work within the laws of physics.
So since the series portrays an eternal cycle, part of the series' thematic argument is that eternal cycles exist and are a good and right way of life which has room for both nature and technological progress.
That's my initial analysis, what do you all think? [smile]
Much of the writing advice I have given here on Gamedev has to do with analyzing what one subconsciously things is important and consciously exploring these themes in your fiction. Often you will find that that novel or videogame story you yearn to write has underlying similarities with other pieces of fiction which have struck you as particularly important (usually for mysterious subconscious reasons).
If you don't understand why a piece of fiction is important to you, you don't know where to start in attempting to capture this importance in your own writing. This is why myth analysis is awesome. [wink] Using the two-part process of symplifying a story to an outline of its essential archetypes and transformations, then comparing several stories to see what archetypes, transformations, and plot patterns they have in common, can help you figure out what you really want to write and why it matters.
Let's look at the Coyote and Roadrunner cartoons as a simple yet quite interesting example. What exactly happen is a typical coyote and roadrunner cartoon? The coyote wants to eat the roadrunner. The coyote's usual motivation is simple hunger, but it has also been portrayed variously as hunting instinct, desire to prove that he is smarter than the roadrunner, and desire to assuage feelings of inadequacy and frustration from having been defeated by the roadrunner so many times before. The coyote's general method of attacking the problem is to create a trap, usually with the aid of technology. So thematically, we have the coyote allied with the side of brains and civilization (humans), while we have the roadrunner allied with nature and luck (aka magical favoritsm by the world). Interestingly nature is not characterized by brawn and violence, as it is in many other stories, but instead with speed and slipperiness.
So, the coyote tries to use technology and wit to defeat the roadrunner, but always fails. Often, the coyote fails where he could logically be expected to have succeded. In some cases this is luck (his traps always get stuck while the roadrunner is in range, then go off and clobber the coyote). In other cases it goes beyond luck and into the realm of magic - the roadrunner runs through a painted doorway, while the coyote can't but instead crashes into the wall the doorway is painted on. Arguably, the coyote is actually fighting not the roadrunner but the whole world which favors the roadrunner and bends the laws of physics to protect it and smack down the coyote. This has a side effect of making the coyote more sympathetic to the audience, because people empathize with being treated unfairly and like to cheer for underdogs.
As poss74 says, one of the most notable things about this series of cartoons is that the coyote never gives up. He may wave a white flag after being particularly beaten, or resort to a vegetarian meal, but the audience knows that this is a temporary retreat, he's always going to regroup and try again.
Some other interesting factors to consider - there is only one roadrunner. This is important because if the roadrunner were ever eaten the plot would abruptly end because there wouldn't be anything left for the coyote to chase. There couldn't just be another roadrunner, because the emnity between the coyote and the roadrunner is personal. The coyote might even have to feel guilty for eating the roadrunner, and audience sympathy would be destroyed because the roadrunner hasn't been characterized as evil and deserving of death, just as annoying and deserving of being the one a boulder falls on for once. The roadrunner's death would also be unsatisfying because it is incompatible with the story universe - if death was possible, the coyote's injuries should have killed him long ago, and if the coyote was capable of winning despite the world being biased against him we should have seen the coyote making some sort of progress, pushing the limits of what the world can do to work against him, foreshadowing his final discovery of a way to finally outmanuver the world. But none of this happens because there are no limits on what the world can do to protect the roadrunner, since the world has magic which can mess with the laws of physics and the coyote has only technology which must work within the laws of physics.
So since the series portrays an eternal cycle, part of the series' thematic argument is that eternal cycles exist and are a good and right way of life which has room for both nature and technological progress.
That's my initial analysis, what do you all think? [smile]
There was also supposed to be something about the roadrunner in the cartoons not ever taking direct actions against the coyote. It was suposed to be out of concern for violence on a childrens tv show. And when you look at it, it kinda says something about the power of peaceful actions.
I don't read much so it's usually some TV show that has that element for me. It's more of a resonnance with stuff going on in my life or the way I feel rather than a feeling that a story is important. As my life goes on, in time, that resonnance usually fades. But sometimes there's a few of these stories that stand out in my memory.
Lately it's been Vision of Escaflowne. The main protaganist and antagonist both with the power to see into the future and change it find the results of their efforts to be disasterous and futile.
As for a game, I'd say Final Fantasy VI. Though fairly cliche by modern standards, back when it came out the whole end of the world thing had a different impact than it does now. For that matter X-Files and Millennium certainly had their effect on me.
I think it'd be interesting to examine pre-y2k pop culture and compare it to modern pop. It seems to me that there's something extrordinarily important to be learned there. Does anyone knows of any good reading on that?
I don't read much so it's usually some TV show that has that element for me. It's more of a resonnance with stuff going on in my life or the way I feel rather than a feeling that a story is important. As my life goes on, in time, that resonnance usually fades. But sometimes there's a few of these stories that stand out in my memory.
Lately it's been Vision of Escaflowne. The main protaganist and antagonist both with the power to see into the future and change it find the results of their efforts to be disasterous and futile.
As for a game, I'd say Final Fantasy VI. Though fairly cliche by modern standards, back when it came out the whole end of the world thing had a different impact than it does now. For that matter X-Files and Millennium certainly had their effect on me.
I think it'd be interesting to examine pre-y2k pop culture and compare it to modern pop. It seems to me that there's something extrordinarily important to be learned there. Does anyone knows of any good reading on that?
Hi,
Since you posted a blurb about myth analysis I'm not sure if posting now will make much difference, but I'm going to anyway :)
I found the Harry Potter books to be very good. I think one of the main reasons for this is that everything in Harry's world seems to happen for a reason and makes sense. J.K Rowling claims to have thought up the entire plot for all the books at the start (if this is actually true or not is another question) I think she did as the plot over all the books is one of the most coherent I have ever read.
That is, it doesn’t seem like each sequel was written purely because the previous book sold well.
On same note I feel only the first two Harry Potter films managed to stay true enough to the books to convey this fact. The last two films were so different the sense of coherence was lost as many of the small plot points were removed. Also, several people I’ve talked to who haven’t read the books agreed that things just seemed to happen and not really made much sense.
My favourite story currently is probably ‘His Dark Materials’ trilogy by Philip Pullman (Northern Lights, The Subtle Knife and The Amber Spyglass). It’s such a great story involving so many different aspects ranging from religion to quantum physics.
Also a big fan of the Discworld series.
- Chris
Since you posted a blurb about myth analysis I'm not sure if posting now will make much difference, but I'm going to anyway :)
I found the Harry Potter books to be very good. I think one of the main reasons for this is that everything in Harry's world seems to happen for a reason and makes sense. J.K Rowling claims to have thought up the entire plot for all the books at the start (if this is actually true or not is another question) I think she did as the plot over all the books is one of the most coherent I have ever read.
That is, it doesn’t seem like each sequel was written purely because the previous book sold well.
On same note I feel only the first two Harry Potter films managed to stay true enough to the books to convey this fact. The last two films were so different the sense of coherence was lost as many of the small plot points were removed. Also, several people I’ve talked to who haven’t read the books agreed that things just seemed to happen and not really made much sense.
My favourite story currently is probably ‘His Dark Materials’ trilogy by Philip Pullman (Northern Lights, The Subtle Knife and The Amber Spyglass). It’s such a great story involving so many different aspects ranging from religion to quantum physics.
Also a big fan of the Discworld series.
- Chris
Oh, a lot. The Lord of the Rings instilled in me my love of epics. I tend to write stories that are epic in some way. Sometimes in the scope of the world, sometimes in characters, sometimes in the ideas. But the book has influenced me to no end to create stories that are larger than life in some way. And if I can ever create a universe a tenth as detailed as Tolkein's, I'll be tickled pink.
Otherwise, I've mostly been influenced by games in stories.
Final Fantasy VI was what really opened my eyes to the possibility of games telling stories, though the story itself didn't influence me all that much. But Final Fantasy VIII really got to me. Since playing that game, nearly every story I've created has involved some kind of love story. And like the love story in Final Fantasy VIII, they're usually about an unusual intensity and destiny, characters changing each other drastically and a whole lot of dramatic imagery. I even have a concept kicking around in my head for Final Fantasy VIII-2, which is officially my dream project as a future game designer. I know my odds of actually creating that game are virtually nil, but hey, I can dream, can't I?
Grim Fandango also has had a lot of influence. I love the game's sense of style, and in particular, the writing. It is sharp, warm and just a touch self-deprecating. I've hoping to create a game that amounts to a cousin of Grim Fandango. A similarish concept, slightly darker subject matter (but free of baditude), and some very different themes, but you'll probably be able to tell that it's heavily influenced by Grim Fandango.
ICO, simply for proving that interactive storytelling can be done. Though it will probably go down in history as one of the simpler examples, it has started a path I hope to follow some day.
The Last Express proved to me that history and political intrigue could be cool. If you haven't played this game, find a way to. It's the sharpest written, best acted game, period.
Metal Gear Solid 2 proved to me how astonishing and mind-blowing plot twists could be. If I could come up with a curve-ball as crazy, plausible and shocking as one of the plot twists in MGS2, I'd be a very happy man.
There's also one movie that had a big impact on me. It's probably not the one you'd expect, either. Babe: Pig in the City. What I love about this movie is how overtly dark it is, and how almost nobody seems to pick up on it because there are cute animals in it. But it's the one that taught me how stylish and fun a dark streak can be when done right. And the film is quite dark. It just knows how to stop short of a PG-13 rating with fuzzy creatures and a happy ending.
Otherwise, I've mostly been influenced by games in stories.
Final Fantasy VI was what really opened my eyes to the possibility of games telling stories, though the story itself didn't influence me all that much. But Final Fantasy VIII really got to me. Since playing that game, nearly every story I've created has involved some kind of love story. And like the love story in Final Fantasy VIII, they're usually about an unusual intensity and destiny, characters changing each other drastically and a whole lot of dramatic imagery. I even have a concept kicking around in my head for Final Fantasy VIII-2, which is officially my dream project as a future game designer. I know my odds of actually creating that game are virtually nil, but hey, I can dream, can't I?
Grim Fandango also has had a lot of influence. I love the game's sense of style, and in particular, the writing. It is sharp, warm and just a touch self-deprecating. I've hoping to create a game that amounts to a cousin of Grim Fandango. A similarish concept, slightly darker subject matter (but free of baditude), and some very different themes, but you'll probably be able to tell that it's heavily influenced by Grim Fandango.
ICO, simply for proving that interactive storytelling can be done. Though it will probably go down in history as one of the simpler examples, it has started a path I hope to follow some day.
The Last Express proved to me that history and political intrigue could be cool. If you haven't played this game, find a way to. It's the sharpest written, best acted game, period.
Metal Gear Solid 2 proved to me how astonishing and mind-blowing plot twists could be. If I could come up with a curve-ball as crazy, plausible and shocking as one of the plot twists in MGS2, I'd be a very happy man.
There's also one movie that had a big impact on me. It's probably not the one you'd expect, either. Babe: Pig in the City. What I love about this movie is how overtly dark it is, and how almost nobody seems to pick up on it because there are cute animals in it. But it's the one that taught me how stylish and fun a dark streak can be when done right. And the film is quite dark. It just knows how to stop short of a PG-13 rating with fuzzy creatures and a happy ending.
Of course! The Odyssey, specifically the translation by Lombardo.
The storyline is incredible, and you really connect with not only the various characters, but the entire world that houses them.
I must say that I agree with the roadrunner analysis, and that those are exactly the reasons I didn't like the show [smile]. I never felt right afterwards; there was never any resolution. The almost pathetic stubborness of the coyote always bothered me, as did the way the roadrunner toyed with him while showing none of the intelligence that the coyote had. The roadrunner was simply fated to win, and the story would wrap itself into any shape that would force the coyote to fail. Don't get me wrong, I see the good in it, but that never struck me. I was always just uneasy after watching it...
It just occurred to me that I did like the Odyssey, but not the roadrunner. Both feature some incredibly stubborn forces pitted against each other with one side horribly outmatched. But in the Odyssey, there is a similar force watching over Odysseus and he eventually is allowed to return home. No such proportionality exists in the roadrunner, and again, no closure.
The storyline is incredible, and you really connect with not only the various characters, but the entire world that houses them.
I must say that I agree with the roadrunner analysis, and that those are exactly the reasons I didn't like the show [smile]. I never felt right afterwards; there was never any resolution. The almost pathetic stubborness of the coyote always bothered me, as did the way the roadrunner toyed with him while showing none of the intelligence that the coyote had. The roadrunner was simply fated to win, and the story would wrap itself into any shape that would force the coyote to fail. Don't get me wrong, I see the good in it, but that never struck me. I was always just uneasy after watching it...
It just occurred to me that I did like the Odyssey, but not the roadrunner. Both feature some incredibly stubborn forces pitted against each other with one side horribly outmatched. But in the Odyssey, there is a similar force watching over Odysseus and he eventually is allowed to return home. No such proportionality exists in the roadrunner, and again, no closure.
Some nice timing here regarding the characters vs. stories comments. I was reading a book (a book that is absolutely as far from Terry Pratchett as you can get) and came across this by Terry Pratchett:
"Stories exist independently of their players. If you know that, the knowledge is power.
Stories, great flapping ribbons of shaped space-time, have been blowing and uncoiling around the universe since the beginning of time. And they have evolved. The weakest have died and the strongest have survived and they ahve grown fat on the retelling...stories, twisting and blowing through the darkness.
And their very existence overlays a fain but insistent pattern on the chaos that is history. Stories etch grooves deep enough for people to follow in the same way that water follows certain paths down a mountainside. And every time fresh actors tread the path of the story, the groove runs deeper.
Stories don't care who takes part in them. All that matters is that the story gets told, that the story repeats. Or, if you prefer to think of it like this: stories are a parasitical life form, warping lives in the service only of the story itself."
"Stories exist independently of their players. If you know that, the knowledge is power.
Stories, great flapping ribbons of shaped space-time, have been blowing and uncoiling around the universe since the beginning of time. And they have evolved. The weakest have died and the strongest have survived and they ahve grown fat on the retelling...stories, twisting and blowing through the darkness.
And their very existence overlays a fain but insistent pattern on the chaos that is history. Stories etch grooves deep enough for people to follow in the same way that water follows certain paths down a mountainside. And every time fresh actors tread the path of the story, the groove runs deeper.
Stories don't care who takes part in them. All that matters is that the story gets told, that the story repeats. Or, if you prefer to think of it like this: stories are a parasitical life form, warping lives in the service only of the story itself."
Author
Hmm parasitical stories. Sounds a lot like memes. [wink]
So, would anyone like to try analyzing a myth and exploring how the results shed light on your own fiction?
So, would anyone like to try analyzing a myth and exploring how the results shed light on your own fiction?
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