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# Stupid programs

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Alright, this is the 4th version of Netscape 6 that I''ve downloaded: release version 6.01. I tried Navigator and Composer all afternoon yesterday - you''d think that after all this time Netscape would get something right. If I maintained a meticulous bug count from yesterday, it would be well above 200. Basically, 1. Navigator and Composer are slow and unresponsive, to the point of being unusable. 2. Composer stinks - it messes up the HTML tags _constantly_ and the text selection code is diabolical. And where are the Cut, Copy, and Paste buttons? 3. Navigator''s install-to-crash ratio is growing larger. It took an hour to download and install, and only two seconds to crash. 4. Navigator leaves garbage in the browser window when you change pages, which makes the dialog boxes and menus look terrible. 5. They always open new windows directly over the old ones! Those are the things that annoy me the most. The only thing I liked about either of them is Navigator''s ability to display partially loaded pages as they are being loaded, which is helpful in the forums. <rant size="tiny"> If Netscape 6 is open source, then may I never release or even use an open source project. Let''s all hope the software world doesn''t turn into an infinite conglomeration of Linux-like version numbers and half-baked releases! *groan* That stupid browser just messed up the text in this edit box again - now it doesn''t even track the text cursor position correctly. </rant> Any other examples of stupid programs?

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So you won''t use or release open-source products because Netscape sucks? Anyway, use Opera instead

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1. NetSheep isn''t slow, your computer is slow
2. Yeah, the text selection is really bad..
3. It took only 10 minutes to download and install... (cable )
4. You get used to it.
5. I love it when a new window opens exactly over the old one!
(I wish that Exploder did that!)

NetSheep is open source.
But open source does NOT mean that a product is bad.
And why would you never release or try an open source product because just one product is bad?
Windows is buggy, but you''re still "buying" commercial programs?

Take a look at SourceForge and try for example the Nebula Engine (very well coded!)
Or the GIMP?
OK, most open source programs look different but it doesn''t mean they''re bad...

Yes, I''ve got an example of a stupid program: Internet Exploder.
Because it crashes at least 3 times a day (takes the whole computer down ).

NetSheep crashed 1 time today and it did not crash my whole computer (bsod)

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You have complaints about one or the other... Ever tried having both installed on one computer at the same time? *evilgrin*

Then you should try running one instance of each. Now press the reset button...

I''m probably going to get lynched for this: I''ve found Win95 to be a stable OS that doesn''t crash on me, loads quickly, and allows me to do what I need to do.

I just saw that Windows CE, Windows ME, Windows NT.... Windows CEMENT joke, gotta love it

Press to test... *click* Release to detonate...

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(Hey, it''s a rant; don''t expect it to be logical. I''m just tired of reinstalling Linux again (and again (and again...)).)

My computer:

AMD K6-2 450 MHz
256 MB of PC133 SDRAM (CAS2)
UDMA-66 Hard Drive
ATI Rage Fury w/ 32 MB SDRAM

It''s not the fastest computer, but it''s certainly not slow enough to make a simple HMTL editor like Composer unusable. FrontPage 98 Express works much faster and doesn''t have most of those problems. When I say responsiveness, I am not talking about download speeds. I mean the fact that the drop-down menus are jerky when Netscape 6 is the only app running, and the mouse clicks do not register sometimes or the characters are being copied to the screen at an even slower pace than my typing (and that is slooowwww).

Windows Me hasn''t crashed my computer since I bought it, with the exception of PowerTweak fiasco. I still don''t know where all these IE crashes are coming from... IE doesn''t crash my computer.

Oh, and I''m still waiting for the Opera site to load - you know, the one that says "Opera - the fastest browser on earth!"

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So, here comes my list:

WineME - After 2K is out, why messing around with this awful, buggy, featureless, crappy and unstable OS ?

AOL - The name says it all ;-)

;-)

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Hey null_pointer, it says fastest browser , not fastest server

 I seem to have trouble with HTML tags today

Edited by - Muzzafarath on February 13, 2001 2:46:14 PM

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Yeah, I know. But the fastest browser on earth is located on the slowest server.

I like Opera but it doesn't seem to fill in my passwords automatically. Does anybody know how to fix this?

WinMe is better than Win2K.

Edited by - null_pointer on February 13, 2001 5:52:35 PM

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IE doesn''t only crash many times it also gives me nice dialogs saying that "one" window will be closed...
(and all open windows are gone after clicking OK)

But why are you using Composer or Frontpage for creating a page/site?
1st Page 2000 (free) is MUCH better!

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For the sake of argument...

I have both Netscape and IE and I ALWAYS use IE. I am not particularely Pro-Microsoft or Pro-Netscape for that matter, but I know which is the better product, by far. People should evaluate what is the best product for the job, not which company is preferred.

Also, problems with crashing are often problems with configuration. My computer is running Win98 with IE55 (go ahead, laugh) but it literally NEVER crashes. Sometimes it depends on what software you use (Visual C++.... *shudder*) but often you simply have to resist the erge to download every demo and beta program on the face of the earth... it is surprising how many don''t perform a clean uninstall. Either that, or don''t complain when your computer crashes constantly. MS can''t be held responsable for other peoples'' programs screwing with the operating system.

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Hey, anon, you sound like me.

Netscape 6.01 seems to have the same problem as IE with all the Netscape windows crashing at one time. I''m not sure if you can change that behavior in Netscape 6.01 but in IE 4.0+ you should be able to change the option that says "Browse in a separate process" which keeps each Explorer window from crashing all Explorer windows.

I use FrontPage 98 Express to create a site because I don''t have money to spend on another piece of software, and besides, it simple and easy to use. My friends work with HTML by hand, and most of the commands from that program translate directly into HTML and the generated code is quite simple, indented, and well-organized. I use it as a WYSIWYG extension of Notepad. Making a frames-capable site is easy if you know enough to make a simple index.html with the frameset commands.

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Well, I used to be a big Netscape person, but the quality began degrading shortly after AOL (AOL is evil, glad I use DSL) came into their scene... I use IE now, it works fine for me (no, it doesn't crash nearly as often for me as other people say it does for them). I also use Win2K Prof., it has to be the best version of Windows I've ever used (that's not saying all that much, but at least it never crashes ).

Oh, and one last thing, use Notepad for HTML/JS/ASP . WYSIWYG editors are too restricting. My website's down at the moment though, oh well .

http://www.gdarchive.net/druidgames/

Edited by - Null and Void on February 13, 2001 7:19:35 PM

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The following quotes were posted by Anonymous Poster

"My computer is running Win98 with IE55 (go ahead, laugh)"
Muahaahaahahaa!!

"(Visual C++.... *shudder*)"
Uhm.. VC++ only crashes when doubleclicking on a .DSW file in Exploder.

"Sometimes it depends on what software you use but often you simply have to resist the erge to download every demo and beta program on the face of the earth... it is surprising how many don''t perform a clean uninstall."
I know, but I''m doing the same with Win2K (dual boot) and Win2K does NEVER crash (well, it did once because the drivers for my videocard were f*ck*d).

The following quote was posted by null_pointer

"in IE 4.0+ you should be able to change the option that says "Browse in a separate process" which keeps each Explorer window from crashing all Explorer windows"
Can you tell me where I can find that option because I think it''ll make me very happy when not all windows are closing with a crash.

I should''ve said that IE usually crashes when there''s a Java applet in a page (chat).
Tried to solve that problem but I still don''t know how to fix it.

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quote:

Yeah, I know. But the fastest browser on earth is located on the slowest server.

Actually, the Opera site is quite fast for me. Loads in a couple of seconds. Maybe they made it load faster with Opera

quote:

I like Opera but it doesn''t seem to fill in my passwords automatically. Does anybody know how to fix this?

I don''t think Opera can do that

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Just to throw my hat into the ring:

I used to hate IE and only use Netscape. After the version 4 releases of both though, I have to say that IE is much more stable..... bloody netscape crashes at the slightest bit of DHTML on a web site or even flash (which it is supposed to have inbuilt support for).

Version 6 is even worse. I''m not saying the IE is great but V5.5 is probably the best browser with the most features that has been released so far.

Personally I don''t have any problems with it and I''m running it on a crappy old Acer Win98 laptop. Netscape takes ages to load when I try and run it..... there is a lot to be said for being able to hook into the OS when you are programming a browser..

Opera is also very good and as far as support goes for implementing the W3C recommendations it goes the furthest.

$0.02 -- No matter what they do, how hard they are or cold they want to be, their mind will always give them away. That is the moment to strike and leverage their weakness -- The birth of Psychic Treason #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Opera is kind of a mixed bag - some pages load really fast and others (like some of the forum pages) take minutes to load. My connection is slow but both IE and Netscape load some pages faster - strange, huh? Opera probably uses a different caching mechanism, so I''ll use it for a while longer before deciding whether or not I''ll keep it. I agree about IE 5.5 - it''s probably one of the best browsers for what it does, even if it is a bit simpler. IE 6.0 should be out very soon, and I''ve heard that it has a lot of new features. Null and Void: I only use the WYSIWYG programs to type in paragraphs and do basic formatting like setting heading styles, and I use Notepad for the more complex tasks. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by null_pointer If Netscape 6 is open source, then may I never release or even use an open source project. Let''s all hope the software world doesn''t turn into an infinite conglomeration of Linux-like version numbers and half-baked releases! *groan* That stupid browser just messed up the text in this edit box again - now it doesn''t even track the text cursor position correctly. Actually, Netscape 6 and "Mozilla" the Open Source version, are different branches of the same original source tree. If you want to see something that''s more stable then choose the latest Mozilla build. BeS It''s Da BOMB Baby!!! . o O ~ A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men ~ O o . -- Willy Wonka #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by null_pointer Hey, anon, you sound like me. Netscape 6.01 seems to have the same problem as IE with all the Netscape windows crashing at one time. I''m not sure if you can change that behavior in Netscape 6.01 but in IE 4.0+ you should be able to change the option that says "Browse in a separate process" which keeps each Explorer window from crashing all Explorer windows. I use FrontPage 98 Express to create a site because I don''t have money to spend on another piece of software, and besides, it simple and easy to use. My friends work with HTML by hand, and most of the commands from that program translate directly into HTML and the generated code is quite simple, indented, and well-organized. I use it as a WYSIWYG extension of Notepad. Making a frames-capable site is easy if you know enough to make a simple index.html with the frameset commands. First off...... The "Browse in a separate process" only keeps Iexplore from crashing "Explorer". It doesn''t keep all I.E. windows from crashing. Because mine does it alot and the Browse in separate process is one of the first settings I change after reinstalling the OS or an update to I.E. Secondly....... 1st Page 2000 is FREE also. While it doesn''t do WYSIWYG it also doesn''t add all of the Frontpage specific extensions in there, like all of the FP Meta tags. I code by hand also, and I can tell you, that editing a page that''s been done in FP or FPXPress SUCKS!!!!! because it assumes all of your visitors are using I.E. Which most of the time is WRONG!!!! I''ve had to edit tables made by those programs so they would sork correctly. Also, if you use form elements, it doesn''t always close them in a form tag. For I.E. that''s fine, but for Netscape it won''t show your element. BeS It''s Da BOMB Baby!!! . o O ~ A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men ~ O o . -- Willy Wonka #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Muzzafarath Actually, the Opera site is quite fast for me. Loads in a couple of seconds. Maybe they made it load faster with Opera Actually, that would have to be because you are in the same region as their server. I believe they are in the Netherlands? BeS It''s Da BOMB Baby!!! . o O ~ A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men ~ O o . -- Willy Wonka #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Like me, Opera is actually norwegian #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Opera is kind of a mixed bag - some pages load really fast and others (like some of the forum pages) take minutes to load. My connection is slow but both IE and Netscape load some pages faster - strange, huh? Opera probably uses a different caching mechanism, so I''ll use it for a while longer before deciding whether or not I''ll keep it. That''s odd, I haven''t had any problems with any pages loading slower in Opera. quote: Actually, that would have to be because you are in the same region as their server. Yeah, Opera is from Norway... But actually I think the site is hosted somewhere in America, it''s hosted by Earthlink. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I don''t like M$, but I can''t live wihout their software !

I''ve seen tons of IDEs, but I think they all suck compared to VC++ ! I can''t imagine using something different !

There is also NO replacement for the MSDN libary.

Another OS than Windows 2000 !? I can''t imagine living with Linux or MacOS !

Using the ''net without Internet Explorer and Outlook ? Oh my god !

Coding ASP pages without Visual InterDev ! Never !

Playing games without my MS ForceFeedback ???

I depend so much on M\$, I can''t imagine living without them ;-) In my opinion, NOBODY offers products that could replace my daily tools !

I would love to have a choice, dammit...

Tim

--------------------------
glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity

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wrenhal:

First, the "browse in a separate process" option does keep any Explorer window from crashing any other Explorer window, whether you are browsing on the 'Net or looking in My Documents. I know because I had them crash separately during the PowerTweak fiasco (don't ask) and because my dad's computer crashes frequently for some unknown reason, which is somehow tied to his AGP video card.

Second, FrontPage 98 Express version 2.02.1131 produces standard HTML without all the XML junk. Other versions of the same software (that look almost identical) produce XML like Word 2000.

Edited by - null_pointer on February 14, 2001 3:05:23 PM

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I have both Netscape 4.76 and 6.01 and of course IE 5.5 but except from browsing MSDN do I always use one browser from Netscape. IE is a pretty good program with fewer bugs that Netscape but some things I do all the time is much faster and convenient in NetScape:

- Entering keywords with Ctrl+L or Ctrl+O works excellent with Netscape but I gave up then IE tried to start a program from the HD.

- Filling in username/passwords. N6 does that perfect and I just have to press enter to confirm in IE is it more annoying.

- Sometimes do I listen to music while surfing this is just a Ctrl+7 select channel in Netscape.

- Spell checking is only available in Netscape.

The above is the main reasons I use Netscape perhaps could I configure IE better but I really like the Netscape browser.