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Now I'm getting tired of this...

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I've been learning Visual Basic.NET for a couple of weeks but now I'm realy tired of my book. It doesn't teach me much. Probably mostly because of it's lack of exercises which I find frustrating (I'm a beginner, how the hell should I know what type of programs I'll be able to create without trying out my skills?). I don't have the patience to read a paragraph over and over again until I learn it by heart. I prefer to read through the text and then use the chapter as a reference when doing the exercises. This is my preferable way of learning. Even though the syntax is easy to read I don't like it now that I start do create bigger applications, the code looks horrible when it grows... I've decided to change to a language that has more documentation on it's neck and suits me better. Since I've tried C++ many times before, it's a no no at the moment. At least until I have some skills in _programming_. I guess that leaves Java for me, since there are loooads of books on the subject. Could you please post some books that not only will teach me Java, but on the same time teach me general beginner programming? I'm looking for a book that offer: • General programming consepts. • Teaches OOP, why and how to use it. • Ends each chapter with both easy and more challanging exercises. • (Ends each chapter with questions about the information) - not required • Will give me a solid foundation to continue with game programming. Thank you in advance! EDIT: Ohh... And I would be happy if you could give me tips on other books to follow up with after the first one.

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Original post by OrangyTang
I doubt you'll find a single book to cover all of that in detail, but you could start with Thinking In Java, with the added bonus that it's free to download. [grin]


I took a look on that on Amazon, the reviews said that it was a little to complicated for a first book, but great for a second book... :/

EDIT: By the way; is Java free for download? In that case what is it that I should download?

EDIT2: Found it after a while of searching...

[Edited by - Zyndrof on May 31, 2006 12:17:23 PM]

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the book I posted goes from basics through to complex stuff, and every chapter is all about making a game or part of a game. It even covers Math as and when necessary

As far as Java goes, for sanities sake I'd probably suggest the bloated but user friendly ide that optionally comes with the java SDK.

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Original post by paulecoyote
As far as Java goes, for sanities sake I'd probably suggest the bloated but user friendly ide that optionally comes with the java SDK.

I dunno, I kind of like the Eclipse IDE better, even though its bulky and slow.

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Original post by Mushu
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Original post by paulecoyote
As far as Java goes, for sanities sake I'd probably suggest the bloated but user friendly ide that optionally comes with the java SDK.

I dunno, I kind of like the Eclipse IDE better, even though its bulky and slow.


Once you develop with IntelliJ, boundaries will disappear and your life experience as a developer will be completely reborn and renewed with new life and vigor.

It's THAT fundamentally good.

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Original post by Mushu
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Original post by paulecoyote
As far as Java goes, for sanities sake I'd probably suggest the bloated but user friendly ide that optionally comes with the java SDK.

I dunno, I kind of like the Eclipse IDE better, even though its bulky and slow.


Once you develop with IntelliJ, boundaries will disappear and your life experience as a developer will be completely reborn and renewed with new life and vigor.

It's THAT fundamentally good.


Hmm I've never used anything other than JCreator, it always does the trick for me, pretty easy and straight-forwarded

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Original post by Mushu
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Original post by paulecoyote
As far as Java goes, for sanities sake I'd probably suggest the bloated but user friendly ide that optionally comes with the java SDK.

I dunno, I kind of like the Eclipse IDE better, even though its bulky and slow.

Seconded (not that it's a big deal either way). Also, Eclipse's performance is pretty decent if you just turn off a few features like the one that underlines syntax errors and the like as you type.

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Original post by TheOther
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Original post by Mushu
Quote:
Original post by paulecoyote
As far as Java goes, for sanities sake I'd probably suggest the bloated but user friendly ide that optionally comes with the java SDK.

I dunno, I kind of like the Eclipse IDE better, even though its bulky and slow.


Once you develop with IntelliJ, boundaries will disappear and your life experience as a developer will be completely reborn and renewed with new life and vigor.

It's THAT fundamentally good.


Hmm I've never used anything other than JCreator, it always does the trick for me, pretty easy and straight-forwarded

ditto.

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Original post by TheOther
Once you develop with IntelliJ, boundaries will disappear and your life experience as a developer will be completely reborn and renewed with new life and vigor.

It's THAT fundamentally good.

When raving about a product it's good to provide a link [smile]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Joshua Bloch's Effective Java is a book that every Java programmer should read, but it's not really a beginner's book. Head First Design Patterns is by far the best introductory to design patterns (covers lots of general OOP stuff too). Code Complete 2nd edition is also a book every programmer should read, get your feet wet before diving into it, though. Brackeen's book is a fine book too and covers many gaming topics. Java 1.4 Game Programming is the worst possible book there is, make sure you skip it.
Also, for gaming stuff, start reading the posts at www.javagaming.org, lots of good stuff there...


As for Eclipse, it has gotten quite a lot faster in the latest branch - 3.2, which will be released soon.
I also run eclipse with Mustang (Java 6), and have added these lines to eclipse.ini:
-server
-XX:+DoEscapeAnalysis

Due to the server VM, everything's a little slower first until the Hotspot compiles the code, but becomes very fast after a while..

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Maybe it's just that you don't like Visual Basic .NET, the language. As an alternative, you could try out C#. It's extremely easy to use and learn (in my opinion). Programming C# by Jesse Liberty is by far the best book I've read introducing the language and briefly going into some of the advanced features of not only the language, but also the .NET Framework. C# is also really quite similar to Java.

If you want to stay away from .NET completely, you could take a look at something like Python as it's really a great language for beginners to get into programming with (almost forces good programming habbits). PyGame provides a complete graphics framework for programming 2D applications in Python.

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Original post by paulecoyote
the book I posted goes from basics through to complex stuff, and every chapter is all about making a game or part of a game. It even covers Math as and when necessary

As far as Java goes, for sanities sake I'd probably suggest the bloated but user friendly ide that optionally comes with the java SDK.


Okay but it seems I need some Java experience before starting to read this book:
"If you already have Java programming experience and are looking to program games, this book is for you. David Brackeen, along with co-authors Bret Barker and Lawrence Vanhelsuwe, show you how to make fast, full-screen action games such as side scrollers and 3D shooters. Key features covered in this book include Java 2 game programming techniques, including latest 2D graphics and sound technologies, 3D graphics and scene management, path-finding and artificial intelligence, collision detection, game scripting using BeanShell, and multi-player game engine creation."

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Original post by Rob Loach
If you want to stay away from .NET completely, you could take a look at something like Python as it's really a great language for beginners to get into programming with (almost forces good programming habbits). PyGame provides a complete graphics framework for programming 2D applications in Python.


I see what you mean, but Java seems as it forces good programming habits too (at least what I've read numerous times on this forum in the 'Java vs C++' threads). It also haves a lot of resources so there shoudn't be a big problem to fins a good book.

I read that Ditel's book "C++ How to program" is great, does this go for "Java How to program" too?

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If you can swallow deitel's books as a beginner, sure. Go for it.
I read both C++ and Java versions and they are both solid.

Personally I prefer books that take smaller steps, even if that means each example is bare-bone and even lacks some info that must be taken care of later on.

Deitel's books is very thorough, has tons of tips, tricks and comments lurking around every corner.
The layout of the books is the best Ive ever seen, and as I said, every page is a mouth full...

Definetly worth the money

[Edited by - pulpfist on June 1, 2006 7:41:29 AM]

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Original post by pulpfist
If you can swallow deitel's books as a beginner, sure. Go for it.
I read both C++ and Java versions and they are both solid.


Well, I'm asking you, can I? ^^

I checked the database of my local library and among some smaller titles they have "Teach yourself Java 2 in 21 days", 3rd edition, and "Java 2 bible", 1st edition. Both are translated which could explain if there are newer editions released.
Is any of these books any good?

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Well, I have read a Teach yourself C++ in 21 days book that was supprisingly good for a pure beginner I think. It was a book of my taste, easy to follow but therefore not all that thorough, or should I say deep digging.
The author was Jesse Liberty. The author of the Java version is probably someone else so it could be completely different.

The titles with bible in them has always been a disappointment to me. (Only looked through them very quick though)

Thats all I can say about those Im afraid...

I would prefer Deitel's books I think. They are just a different league

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Original post by Zyndrof
I've been learning Visual Basic.NET for a couple of weeks but now I'm realy tired of my book. It doesn't teach me much. Probably mostly because of it's lack of exercises which I find frustrating (I'm a beginner, how the hell should I know what type of programs I'll be able to create without trying out my skills?).

Why not just get another book on VB.net as opposed to learning a whole new language? Just thought I'd ask.

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I have been working with deitels VB.NET at school and its the same with that. They are all very solid.
I aggree with you about VB as a language though, I much prefer C++ and even Java.
My oppinion might be biased a bit. Im a native guy, and I dont like languages and applications that are bloated with MS dependencies

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Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
Why not just get another book on VB.net as opposed to learning a whole new language? Just thought I'd ask.


I think I mentioned (don't have the will to read my first post again :P) that I don't like the syntax of VB.net. In the beginning it looked great. I thought: "Wow, this is super easy" but now when I'm making applications a little bigger than "Hello World" or "Guess the number" the code just looks... "Aaaahhh!!!". And that's not because I make it look "Aaaahhh!!!", it's because VS makes it look "Aaaahhh!!!".

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don't have the will to read my first post again

Heh, it sounds like perl is the language for you then. Written by lazy dogs, for lazy dogs. Unfortunately its probably not a good path if you wanna write games, besides its just an interpreter, not a compiler.
As someone said, you sould definetly consider Python as an alternative to Java.

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Original post by pulpfist
Heh, it sounds like perl is the language for you then. Written by lazy dogs, for lazy dogs. Unfortunately its probably not a good path if you wanna write games, besides its just an interpreter, not a compiler.
As someone said, you sould definetly consider Python as an alternative to Java.


Haha :P

Why do you think Python would suit me better?

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It has the same power as Java but easier to use. The interface is just more straigth to the point IMO
Im not sure how to say this so Ill say it in swegian:

Jeg synes Java er altfor omstendelig å bruke.
Python er mer rett på sak når det gjelder syntax

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Original post by pulpfist
It has the same power as Java but easier to use. The interface is just more straigth to the point IMO
Im not sure how to say this so Ill say it in swegian:

Jeg synes Java er altfor omstendelig å bruke.
Python er mer rett på sak når det gjelder syntax


I see... I've taken a look on Python and it doesn't seem to hard. Will I be able to use it to create stunning 3D graphics? If not, is Java better or on the same level? If yes, same question ;P

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Im not all that experienced with 3d graphics realy.
I know there exists third party libraries for Python to make 3D graphics.
3D graphics with Java is becoming more popular too.
I realy dont know which is better suited though since Ive been using C++ mostly.

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