Digital Collection
Author
We have seen it in Pokemon and just about every other spin off of that, and we see it in many of the popular titles that draw millions to play for hours on end. It is the foundation of nearly every game made, the drive to collect.
In most games collection is no more than scoring more points, or in many cases its for curancy, and other times its just for self gradification. One or the other is just about everywhere.
Now what if you put a restriction on the TOTAL number of all items that exist in a gaming world. Not a restriction made on the single player who can only collect five hidden endings but restrictions made for many players everywhere playing a single game.
The best example of this would be a online Collectable Card Game, where there are limited numbers of cards for EVERYONE playing. Not that i think a CCG is the way to do this but what if you had a tittle were there was this kind of limited content for the sake of collection.
1) Would this work?
2) Has it been done?
3) How would this make the game better or worst?
Thanks all.
Limited total cards causes problems.
1> The game doesn't scale with an increase in the number of players. (can be hacked around -- # of each card is a function of the number of players)
2> The game doesn't scale with an increase in the number of hard-core players.
In effect, your ability to "complete" your game becomes limited by joining the game "late". I suppose you could exploit pyramid scheme psychology to get people to recruit more people. (ie -- if you have 500 players in your player-recruit-tree, you get a 1/500 rareness card! ^_^)
...
CCG, like MtG, have a somewhat limited number of each card in existence -- but each player can spend more money (buy card-packs) for more chances at rare cards. The avoidance of "unstoppable card power, because I started the game before you did" is built in with the tournament "more than 3 expansions old is not allowed" rules. Sadly, this also causes a disconnect -- people who (initially) think they are buying cards forever, get annoyed with having to pay a "rent" of constantly buying new cards to keep playing against new players.
Hmm. Off to lunch.
1> The game doesn't scale with an increase in the number of players. (can be hacked around -- # of each card is a function of the number of players)
2> The game doesn't scale with an increase in the number of hard-core players.
In effect, your ability to "complete" your game becomes limited by joining the game "late". I suppose you could exploit pyramid scheme psychology to get people to recruit more people. (ie -- if you have 500 players in your player-recruit-tree, you get a 1/500 rareness card! ^_^)
...
CCG, like MtG, have a somewhat limited number of each card in existence -- but each player can spend more money (buy card-packs) for more chances at rare cards. The avoidance of "unstoppable card power, because I started the game before you did" is built in with the tournament "more than 3 expansions old is not allowed" rules. Sadly, this also causes a disconnect -- people who (initially) think they are buying cards forever, get annoyed with having to pay a "rent" of constantly buying new cards to keep playing against new players.
Hmm. Off to lunch.
I'd mostly agree with NotAYakk; if your collections affect your ability to compete in the main game world, then it puts new players at an even greater disadvantage than generic leveling. In a single player game, however, it gives you a really good measure of achievement. In fact, I just finished collecting every demon in Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne just last week. I'm compulsive! [grin]
For single or multiplayer, you can offset the power of rarer items by making them cost more resources to use. In terms of Magic: the Gathering, it could cost a buttload of mana, several different types of mana, require a creature sacrifice, require a sacrifice of life points, etc. This means that players with rare stuff can do amazing things, but it takes a lot more effort to set up.
For massively multiplayer, you'll have to devise some activity other than combat (or whatever other method used to elevate yourself in the game) that involves your collectibles. If they're just trophies, I know I'd get bored with them, so perhaps you could use this digital collection in a minigame. In the same sort of way that FF8 and FF9 used cards in a game-within-the-game.
For single or multiplayer, you can offset the power of rarer items by making them cost more resources to use. In terms of Magic: the Gathering, it could cost a buttload of mana, several different types of mana, require a creature sacrifice, require a sacrifice of life points, etc. This means that players with rare stuff can do amazing things, but it takes a lot more effort to set up.
For massively multiplayer, you'll have to devise some activity other than combat (or whatever other method used to elevate yourself in the game) that involves your collectibles. If they're just trophies, I know I'd get bored with them, so perhaps you could use this digital collection in a minigame. In the same sort of way that FF8 and FF9 used cards in a game-within-the-game.
Think about Chocobo breeding and racing, in FFVII.
Or maybe the ship parts in Kingdom Hearts...
Or maybe the ship parts in Kingdom Hearts...
Author
It has been said in World of Warcraft there are Artifact items, and only ONE Artifact can exist at one time per server.
So why not make it this way for many items...
Joe Shmoe Card x300 per server
John Doe Card x100 per server
Jesus Card x10 per server
Bleh Card x10000 per server
Why not?
As for making it more or less difficult for players to catch up, its just like any Collectable Card Game, there are PLENTY of cards and the more limited cards dont have to be the ONLY card used to win. This just make collectivity more benefical.
If you just started playing then you might get lucky and draw the right pack of cards, but if you haev been playing for awile then you have circulated through more cards and have a better chance of getting better ones.
Besids its not the quality of the card, its how you use it.
So why not make it this way for many items...
Joe Shmoe Card x300 per server
John Doe Card x100 per server
Jesus Card x10 per server
Bleh Card x10000 per server
Why not?
As for making it more or less difficult for players to catch up, its just like any Collectable Card Game, there are PLENTY of cards and the more limited cards dont have to be the ONLY card used to win. This just make collectivity more benefical.
If you just started playing then you might get lucky and draw the right pack of cards, but if you haev been playing for awile then you have circulated through more cards and have a better chance of getting better ones.
Besids its not the quality of the card, its how you use it.
then, if you give a limited number of cards per server, you have to remember the number of the already drawn cards, to allow the newcomer the chance to draw one of the rarer cards which have not been drawn yet. Let's say you have 10 "Jesus Saves" cards per server, and a total 1000 times players' number total cards. It means the first player to come in has 10 chances out of 1000 to draw a "Jesus Saves", whereas the second has 10 out 2000, or maybe only 9 out of 2000. It means that if you come in early, you have a greater chance of drawing a rare card, but when you come in later, you have the same chance as almost anyone, comparatively... If it hasn't been drawn so far, then it can happen to you just as much...
Author
I still done get how anyone thinks this is better for the people who get in first other than being first gives you more time to play thus more oportunity to "Buy the Right Booster Pack" or "Win the Turnement" or "Trade another player for the Jesus Card."
If this is such a problem how is it that CCGs exist in REAL LIFE? I am saying directly translate a game like Magic: TG into the computer over a server that can regulate maximun card numbers and then allow the players to work for, perchase, and win cards to further thier collects.
If a card is in somones collection that is one less card that exists in the Market, making it less likely somone will get it in a pack or a box.
Because obtaining cards is done by buying Packs its random what you get so you could play for two years and never get the Jesus Card wile the new player gets it on the first try.
If somone has a card you want, Trade them, or buy it off them.
Im going to have to try Magic: TG online and see what they do.
Thanks all
If this is such a problem how is it that CCGs exist in REAL LIFE? I am saying directly translate a game like Magic: TG into the computer over a server that can regulate maximun card numbers and then allow the players to work for, perchase, and win cards to further thier collects.
If a card is in somones collection that is one less card that exists in the Market, making it less likely somone will get it in a pack or a box.
Because obtaining cards is done by buying Packs its random what you get so you could play for two years and never get the Jesus Card wile the new player gets it on the first try.
If somone has a card you want, Trade them, or buy it off them.
Im going to have to try Magic: TG online and see what they do.
Thanks all
Quote:I still done get how anyone thinks this is better for the people who get in first other than being first gives you more time to play thus more oportunity to "Buy the Right Booster Pack" or "Win the Turnement" or "Trade another player for the Jesus Card."
If this is such a problem how is it that CCGs exist in REAL LIFE? I am saying directly translate a game like Magic: TG into the computer over a server that can regulate maximun card numbers and then allow the players to work for, perchase, and win cards to further thier collects.
If there's a market like that in the game, where you can get new cards off some non-player thing, and you're going to make having a limited total number of cards actually affect the game, you're building a broken market. Supply won't increase with the demand, and the market will die (and only the ones that joined early will have gotten to take advantage of it). I can't really see how that problem can be eliminated without either ending up making it so the card-limitation doesn't really affect much (which is what M:TG is like in real life) or making the market redundant.
Quote:As for making it more or less difficult for players to catch up, its just like any Collectable Card Game, there are PLENTY of cards and the more limited cards dont have to be the ONLY card used to win. This just make collectivity more benefical.
The only way there can be plenty of cards, over an unlimited amount of time and/or for an unlimited amount of player is to have an unlimited number of cards.
agreed. Instead of making the limitation on the number, set tghe limitation on the proportion!
Like, there is an average of 1000 cards per player, and an average of 1 "Jesus Saves" card per 100,000 total cards, 2 "I'm a Rocket Wizard, Actually" cards per 100,000 and so on and so forth... This way, those cards probabilities are not triggered until the trigger lower number appears ingame. WHich means that the only thing you gain at using the game from early on is the player's experience gain, not the cards advantage...
Like, there is an average of 1000 cards per player, and an average of 1 "Jesus Saves" card per 100,000 total cards, 2 "I'm a Rocket Wizard, Actually" cards per 100,000 and so on and so forth... This way, those cards probabilities are not triggered until the trigger lower number appears ingame. WHich means that the only thing you gain at using the game from early on is the player's experience gain, not the cards advantage...
Quote:Original post by Dasubermechen
I still done get how anyone thinks this is better for the people who get in first other than being first gives you more time to play thus more oportunity to "Buy the Right Booster Pack" or "Win the Turnement" or "Trade another player for the Jesus Card."
If this is such a problem how is it that CCGs exist in REAL LIFE? I am saying directly translate a game like Magic: TG into the computer over a server that can regulate maximun card numbers and then allow the players to work for, perchase, and win cards to further thier collects.
In M:tG in real life, they print more cards.
While they don't print re-print exact copies "old" cards, they make those old cards obsolete (illegal to use in tournament rules). They do reprint "old" cards in reprint editions.
Quote:If a card is in somones collection that is one less card that exists in the Market, making it less likely somone will get it in a pack or a box.
Actually, sort of wrong. While a given print run has X Jesus Saves cards, if the print run sells out (new players join the game) they may choose to do another print run.
Practically, in an online game, all they have to do is set the chance that a Jesus Saves card comes out of a booster pack, and generate booster packs on the fly, instead of maintaining "the set of all booster packs in the print run". As far as the buyer of cards is concerned, it will look identical (the laws of large numbers).
It just means the size of a print run is dynamic, depending on the number of people who buy cards.
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