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emacs is whacked yo

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Okay I've heard a lot of hype about emacs and so now I'm attempting to become "acquainted" with it. I looked at GNU's online manual for it, and its several thousand pages long, and quite frankly that, scares me. So I figured I'd post my 4 or 5 questions here and maybe you guys can lend some help. 1. What does it mean to "fill" or to "auto-fill?" I believe it is similar to a so-called "word wrap" for justifying paragraphs of text, but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. What is the syntax for these commands: (a) to fill a given paragraph, and (b) to turn on auto-fill? 2. How do I insert a file at the end of a file I am currently viewing? Note that I am *not* looking to create a second buffer. 3. How do I highlight a region of text? 4. When I'm inside a file, and I want to open another file and create a second "buffer" on screen, what is the syntax for this command? 5. Then, after I've used that second buffer for whatever I need, how do I "kill" it and remove it from screen (so that the original file is the only open buffer)? -hisDudeness

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Ya know, ive been using emacs for varous things for 4 years and i couldn't tell you how to do a single thing. That's because its so bloated that i end up trial-and-error'ing everything.

I switched to kEdit and breeze through things.

Sorry i can't help,

Dave

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not sure where you heard this hype about emacs, but I'll let you in on a secret ... coding in emacs is like developing for 360 on an Apple II.

Why would you use such a stripped down environment when you can get a fully featured IDE like Visual Studio 2k5 express for free? Not only is it far more intuitive to use, it allows you to be more productive, and it has great debugging capabilities.

Don't use outdated tools if you can help it, but then again, that's just my opinion.

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Original post by Morpheus011
... coding in emacs is like developing for 360 on an Apple II.


Well this is total bullcrap, sir.

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Original post by Morpheus011
Why would you use such a stripped down environment when you can get a fully featured IDE like Visual Studio 2k5 express for free? Not only is it far more intuitive to use, it allows you to be more productive, and it has great debugging capabilities.


Stripped down?! You've never used Emacs, have you?

Quote:

Don't use outdated tools if you can help it, but then again, that's just my opinion.


Outdated? Emacs is actively developed.

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Why would you use such a stripped down environment when you can get a fully featured IDE like Visual Studio 2k5 express for free?


Excellent question Morpheus011. Answer: Because my UNIX Operating Systems professor wants me to use emacs. :-)

Please help.

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well that's a totally different story. Have you looked into cygwin at all? It might be easier for you to get the hang of quickly. But shouldn't you know how to use a compiler before they teach you how to program in one? If you already are using something else that you are more comfortable with, like Vi or something, then stick with that, the hassle of learning a new compiler environment might outweigh the benefits of using it for a class.

And yes Roboguy, I've used emacs before, which is the reason I was so quick to suggest a good IDE such as Visual Studio. I challenge you to develop a game faster in emacs than you can in Visual Studio. Best case scenario you will be able to do it _as_ fast, but certainly no faster unless you have absolutely no experience with VS.

I don't think it's total bull crap to suggest someone use an industry wide tool that is industry wide for a good reason.

EDIT: I realized I still didn't really answer any of your questions, my suggestion would be to search around on google or the like for emacs, I'm sure there are sites dedicated to it. You may have better luck out on the net. This looks like a good place to start -- http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/keith/tcl-course/emacs-tutorial.html
sorry, don't know how to linkify

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Guest Anonymous Poster
It takes a few years, but once you learn Emacs well, nothing will ever be able to replace it.
M-x = Meta key and x
C-x = Control key and x


>> 1. What does it mean to "fill" or to "auto-fill?" I believe it is similar to a so-called "word wrap" for justifying paragraphs of text, but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. What is the syntax for these commands: (a) to fill a given paragraph, and (b) to turn on auto-fill?

If a buffer is set to auto-fill, once a line gets over a certain number of characters it will automatically be wrapped to a new line. Just like "word wrap." Turn it on by typing "M-x auto-fill-mode" To fill a paragraph, put the cursor on the paragraph and type "M-x fill-paragraph" (Might be set to M-q)

>> 2. How do I insert a file at the end of a file I am currently viewing? Note that I am *not* looking to create a second buffer.

C-x i

>> 3. How do I highlight a region of text?

C-spacebar to set the beginning of the mark, then navigate normally.

>> 4. When I'm inside a file, and I want to open another file and create a second "buffer" on screen, what is the syntax for this command?

Technically a new buffer is created whenever you open a new file. To display a second "window" type C-x 2 to create a window underneath the current one, C-x 3 to create a new window beside the current one.

>> 5. Then, after I've used that second buffer for whatever I need, how do I "kill" it and remove it from screen (so that the original file is the only open buffer)?

C-x 1 will make the current window the only one open, C-x 0 will kill the current window.


--cam

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Original post by Roboguy
Quote:
Don't use outdated tools if you can help it, but then again, that's just my opinion.


Outdated? Emacs is actively developed.


<opinion>
I heard that vi is also actively developped. It doesn't mean that vi is not outdated.

Emacs compares rather badly to the new breed of IDE. Sure, if you are good at lisp (ie if you are this kind of geek that put everything between parenthesis - including your real life) you can do whatever you want in emacs - meta-x-ing rules. But since most users are, well, users, they don't want to dirty their hand with obscure references to symbols that are dead (is "defun" the shortening for "defunct"?). Moreover, in a world were virtualy anyone agrees that Ctrl+S is a good shortcut to open a file, emacs continues to propose the good ol' "C-x s" dumb shortcut that you have to lookup in the documentation.

Compare to VS.NET: how many of you are using the integrated macro evaluator to deeply modify the behavior of the editor? I guess the percentage is near 0.

Frankly: the only real thing that is really comparable to emacs is the diplodocus: it's big, it's powerful, it's beautiful. But it's dead.
</opinion>

BTW do emacs guys realize that they are the only people on earth that knows about the existence of a "meta" key on their keyboard? (and what is, finally, a meta key? Is it is a key that defines the other keys?)

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
It takes a few years, but once you learn Emacs well, nothing will ever be able to replace it.
--cam


It takes a few days, but once you learn VS editor well, you'll be able to work instead of spending years to learn how to use emacs [grin]

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Original post by Emmanuel Deloget
BTW do emacs guys realize that they are the only people on earth that knows about the existence of a "meta" key on their keyboard? (and what is, finally, a meta key? Is it is a key that defines the other keys?)

click here to see a keyboard with Meta, Super and Hyper keys. It even has a Meta-Lock :)

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Original post by Emmanuel Deloget
It takes a few days, but once you learn VS editor well, you'll be able to work instead of spending years to learn how to use emacs [grin]

Stupid reply:
It takes a few days, but once you learn VB well, you'll be able to work instead of spending years to learn how to use C++.

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I would say that familiarity with tools like Emacs or Vim is pretty important. These tools are available on nearly any platform you may come across. Not everybody has visual studio on their computer (nor should they). I can't even count the number of times I've been called over by an artist who had a problem with an export script or something and I've had to install a free text editor on their machine (or use notepad). Once you get good with one of these editors you can be very productive.

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I want a triangle on my keyboard!!

If I've read one of those keys correctly, though, I don't think I want a "Reboot" key right next to shift. That sounds dangerous.

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Original post by Ezbez
If I've read one of those keys correctly, though, I don't think I want a "Reboot" key right next to shift. That sounds dangerous.

It's "repeat", not "reboot".

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Original post by Trap
Quote:
Original post by Emmanuel Deloget
It takes a few days, but once you learn VS editor well, you'll be able to work instead of spending years to learn how to use emacs [grin]

Stupid reply:
It takes a few days, but once you learn VB well, you'll be able to work instead of spending years to learn how to use C++.


First, I'd like to thank you for this "stupid" word [flaming] - very kind.

And what you say is very true - why do you think that VB is used?
Quote:
In business programming, Visual Basic has one of the largest user bases. According to some sources, as of 2003, 52 percent of software developers used Visual Basic, making it the most popular programming language at that time.

other source (not related only to business programming) (before looking the table, please read about the methodology they used). Anyway, VB+VB.NET still represented nearly 24% of the (online) job offers in June 2003.

I'd have to say that it takes more than a few days to learn VB well. In a few days, you'll be able to create small programs but small programs are not really usefull.

Anyway, since VB is simple and yet powerfull, it is true that a lot of projects are built using VB instead of C++. From a programmer point of view, good VB skills sells well. What's stupid about this?

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Quote:
Original post by Emmanuel Deloget
Quote:
Original post by Trap
Stupid reply:
It takes a few days, but once you learn VB well, you'll be able to work instead of spending years to learn how to use C++.


First, I'd like to thank you for this "stupid" word [flaming] - very kind.

I meant to imply that my reply is stupid, not that your post is stupid.

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I ran emacs once just to see what it was like, spend half an hour trying to figure out how to close it and in the end had to restart my computer.

Probably my stupidity though. I'm not dissing emacs.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Trap
I meant to imply that my reply is stupid

[/quote]

And rightly so, your post has no relevance to the discussion at hand.

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If you have XWindows on your unix machines why not just use XEmacs? It's Emacs with a WIMP interface bolted on top. It's rather pleasant to use even though it is still Emacs. I only use it for M-x tetris.

I love vim. [grin] Love it so much.

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Original post by EasilyConfused
I ran emacs once just to see what it was like, spend half an hour trying to figure out how to close it and in the end had to restart my computer.

Probably my stupidity though. I'm not dissing emacs.


C-x C-c. Might want to read more about Emacs before using it again, though. You could have used Ctrl-z, then killed the process, anyway. Or if you had multiple TTYs open, you could have just switched to another TTY and killed it from there.

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Original post by Roboguy
Quote:
Original post by EasilyConfused
I ran emacs once just to see what it was like, spend half an hour trying to figure out how to close it and in the end had to restart my computer.

Probably my stupidity though. I'm not dissing emacs.


C-x C-c. Might want to read more about Emacs before using it again, though. You could have used Ctrl-z, then killed the process, anyway. Or if you had multiple TTYs open, you could have just switched to another TTY and killed it from there.


Nah. If I ever get a linux distro again, it's joe joe joe all the way for me.

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