A rant about metroid-style games (long)

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18 comments, last by JBourrie 17 years, 10 months ago
I think that the "lock and key" system is good, provided that they don't dress up the keys as powerups. If there's a door you can see, and it' sobvious that you need a phase-shifting energy pulse to open it, and there are things in the world that generate such pulses, then there's nothing wrong with having to go get one of those devices and deliver it to the door. It's like saying that the C4 is Metal Gear Solid was a dead squirrel because it was almost useless in fights, and you only ever really needed it to get through certain walls.

The problem is the expectation, on the player's part, that every item or augmentation they get should make them more uber.
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Although they wernt all side scrollers, the Legend of Zelda games used a simular "power-ups as keys" approch to much success.
Iron Chef Carnage: there's nothing inherently wrong with keys that act only as keys. If you have some reason to require the player to visit certain areas in sequence, then they can make good ways of enforcing that sequence. So long as you don't make the key-collecting segment too onerous, you generally won't annoy your players too much.

I actually think, though I have no studies done to back this up, that abilities that only are really useful as keys are worse than keys that are explicitly useless except as keys. It's a matter of presentation: for the latter, the player knows that all they're really getting with the key is access to a different area, and they're fine with that. For the former, it's not nearly so clear; it seems like they're getting a new ability, which should be useful somewhere, but it isn't, really, except over here to get past that obstacle. That's deceptive game design. It's like being given a sword labeled "Sword of Awesomeness +10", which is so heavy that it takes you a full ten seconds to swing. You can use it to break down walls, sure, but its name belies its utility, as it's utterly pointless as a weapon. The player will end up trying to use the sword/ability in many situations in an attempt to find a use for it, and will end up concluding that it's simply not worth the effort. That time spent was essentially wasted, and probably not very much fun; therefore, it's something to be avoided.

Leiavoia: two things. First off, with the "limitation of keys" thing - I don't personally like that idea, as the player will have no idea going in that any one weapon will be more useful than another. You'd essentially end up with players picking weapons for the first descent either randomly, or based purely on what they're most comfortable with, and then, once they know what they need, returning to the start to equip what's actually useful. In other words, the tradeoff decisions you envision can only be made by someone who has foreknowledge of the regions they'll be traversing, which basically destroys the exploration focus of the Metroid-style genre.

Secondly, with having non-obvious uses for abilities. Good idea. Some examples off the top of my head:

1) Freezing enemies to use them as platforms. This is moderately obvious to people with past experience with "ice" weapons, but the first time you figure it out is fun. Another ice-ability in the Prime series is using missiles to shatter frozen enemies with a single hit.

2) The "shinespark" ability of the Speed Booster in the Metroid games, which I don't believe is ever explained directly to the player. Certainly it wasn't in Super Metroid except by a creature who mimicked the actions you had to take to use it.

3) Just having items that aren't required to reach new areas, and clearly so. Rewarding the player with items that are useful in their own right reduces the feeling of "find the silver key to open the silver door".
Jetblade: an open-source 2D platforming game in the style of Metroid and Castlevania, with procedurally-generated levels
Quote:Original post by Derakon
Leiavoia: two things. First off, with the "limitation of keys" thing - I don't personally like that idea, as the player will have no idea going in that any one weapon will be more useful than another. You'd essentially end up with players picking weapons for the first descent either randomly, or based purely on what they're most comfortable with, and then, once they know what they need, returning to the start to equip what's actually useful. In other words, the tradeoff decisions you envision can only be made by someone who has foreknowledge of the regions they'll be traversing, which basically destroys the exploration focus of the Metroid-style genre.


Well, if the player can scan the area and get some information about it beforehand then re-outfitting your character becomes part of the game. Just be sure to give enough useful information (heck, lower difficulties or earlier levels might even have to computer come out and tell the player what'd be useful). Another option would be that any combination can make it with different pros and cons.

The only problem I might have with this is that different setups probably have access to different content in the same area so, unless I can easily revisit the same area with a different setup, I'm likely to end up feeling a little put out that I missed something but not willing to replay the game just for that.
AM I wrong in believing that the Megaman series (the older ones, on SuperNes or GameBoy) did something like that? You could take out ANY ennemy with ANY weapon, including the basic one, but it would be easier if you followed some sort of sequence, like first water, then fire, then ice, then electric, then boomerang, then cut, then... But you could begin the chain wherever you saw it fittest...
Yours faithfully, Nicolas FOURNIALS
The problem with the 'Megaman approach', as i will now dub it, is that the games difficulty becomes inversly easier, as opposed to more difficult. The more you unlock special abilities, the easier the game becomes, because the levels are all balanced to be equal. This makes the game discouraging to newcomers, but those who have persited find the game a breeze once they build a range of abilities.
Quote:Original post by Ember Joe
This makes the game discouraging to newcomers, but those who have persited find the game a breeze once they build a range of abilities.


Isn't that the formula for all "grinding" type games? New players are pathetically feeble, and advanced players face no challenge. When you can kill behemoths in two rounds in FF2 (FFIVj), Zeromus is kind a lame.
Quote:Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
Quote:Original post by Ember Joe
This makes the game discouraging to newcomers, but those who have persited find the game a breeze once they build a range of abilities.


Isn't that the formula for all "grinding" type games? New players are pathetically feeble, and advanced players face no challenge. When you can kill behemoths in two rounds in FF2 (FFIVj), Zeromus is kind a lame.


If we're going about it like that, then it's the formula for just about any competitive game. On average I can get further along in Minesweeper than when I first started and I can still get my ass handed to me in poker by just about anyone. Also, last I checked, I still get a bullet in the head from God knows where when I play multiplayer FPS's.
In general, I've noticed that the real long-term replayability in many singleplayer games comes not from developer-set difficulty levels, "100% completion" goals, or other things like that, but from player-set challenges that specifically remove some helpful thing from the list of things that the player can do. For example, I've played through Megaman 3 from time to time using only the basic gun, and believe you me it's a heck of a lot harder that way; each boss only takes 1 point of damage from the peashooter, compared to up to 6 points from the weapon they're weak against. Similarly, in Super Metroid you can limit yourself to 3 energy tanks (you need at least 300 health to survive a scripted combat at one point), or in Symphony of the Night you can try playing the game without equipping any weapons. The most classic challenge is playing through Final Fantasy 1 with a party of four white mages. These challenges can significantly change gameplay, creating a new player experience. Of course, some games are more amenable to challenges than others. If you force upgrades on the player, for example, then they can't very well avoid them, can they?

With that in mind, I'd say that games in this genre should be reasonably challenging the first time through, perhaps easy for repeat players, but with many different ways of accomplishing goals, some of course more challenging than others.
Jetblade: an open-source 2D platforming game in the style of Metroid and Castlevania, with procedurally-generated levels
Quote:2) The super-jump ability in Symphony of the Night. Bat form is a requirement to get it, so you can already fly; this just streamlines the process.


Yet they still found a way to use it outside of just streamlining the flying process: you can juggle the librarian's chair from below using this skill, and you get items for it :)

Check out my new game Smash and Dash at:

http://www.smashanddashgame.com/

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