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What's the best engine?

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I guess you're talking about graphics engines?

From my point of view the Irrlicht engine is the best example to start with, because it's not as complex as the ones for commercial games, but still covers all your needs.

But if I wasn't developping my own engine, I'd recommend Ogre3D, because it's in my opinion the best one freely available at the moment.

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Well, I don't want a free one. I want one that I can buy, so that I have the right to publish my games. So I suppose in that case it would be Irrlicht?

(I'll also be hiring programmers... for pay)

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Well writing your own engine is extremely complicated. Even if you hire the best programmers, there are other good alternatives.

Torque is "the best engine" around. It costs $100 per developer in your team. You could go for a commerical liscense which is around $500 last time I checked. There are some hitches such as max amount of profit/revenue (not sure which).

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Okay, thanks a lot Shankar. That's really useful information. Now I just need to know how much I would have to end up paying the programmers. lol

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Quote:
Original post by Highly United
Well, I don't want a free one. I want one that I can buy, so that I have the right to publish my games. So I suppose in that case it would be Irrlicht?

(I'll also be hiring programmers... for pay)


The opensource engines (and other opensource libraries) typically do not limit you to making non-commercial games. The rights to your games are yours, the engine is just a tool. Typically all you need to do is include their license file with your program and probably mention them in the credits. Since you're planing on paying people anyway, you could cut costs by having an IP lawyer analyze the licensing terms of an open engine for you (this might come out cheaper than licensing a commercial engine, which depending on engine can run well into tens of thousands of dollars).

As for your original question, the best engine to work with is probably one that supports all desired and anticipated features in a clean and modular manner, and is well documented.

Quote:

Now I just need to know how much I would have to end up paying the programmers.


Don't forget concept artists, writers, modellers, level designers, sound and effects technicians, voice actors, managers, hardware, software... [grin]

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lol I know about all of them as well. However, programmers are much harder to come by, and probably one of the hardest things to learn.

As for your original advice, which open source engine would you recommend, if any?

Thanks for all the help, everyone.

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Quote:
Original post by D Shankar
Well writing your own engine is extremely complicated. Even if you hire the best programmers, there are other good alternatives.

Torque is "the best engine" around. It costs $100 per developer in your team. You could go for a commerical liscense which is around $500 last time I checked. There are some hitches such as max amount of profit/revenue (not sure which).


Move over torque: C4

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An engine won't build your game, and you're unlikely to attract hobbyist programmers over the Internet without some sort of demo.

I really do recommend you learn to develop software (even a crappy demo that gets thrown out shows you're serious enough to work on the game for a month or more and therefore are committed to the whole thing), or make personal acquaintances with amateur developers in your town.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Highly United
lol I know about all of them as well. However, programmers are much harder to come by, and probably one of the hardest things to learn.

As for your original advice, which open source engine would you recommend, if any?

Thanks for all the help, everyone.


talented artists can be much harder to find than skilled programmers, you should expect to pay roughly $2000-$5000 / month for most employees (western europe / US), if you get your labour from somewhere else it might be alot cheaper.

"anyone" can learn programming, artistic talent is very rare. (composers, concept artists etc)

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"anyone" can learn programming, artistic talent is very rare


In my experience, artistic talent is about as common as programmers who understand pointer to pointer. And, no, not "everyone" actually does that.

Difference is: programmers yield such satisfaction from coding, they might do it for free. Apparently, artists don't.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
[...]

"anyone" can learn programming, artistic talent is very rare. (composers, concept artists etc)


The fact that you're posting anonymously says enough. I'm sure everyone can learn the basics of programming, but I'm also sure that not everybody has the potential skill for getting at a descent level. I believe that not everybody has the skill to make a góód design before programming.

You could even say that everyone can become an artist, but that doesn't mean that everyone can become an artist on a professional level.

Artistic talent ís rare, but I can tell you that programmers are not easy to find either(I work in a game company with about 100-150 people, so I know what I'm talking about).

Sorry for the offtopicness, just wanted to make a point here :)


Quote:
Original post by hplus0603
Quote:
"anyone" can learn programming, artistic talent is very rare


In my experience, artistic talent is about as common as programmers who understand pointer to pointer. And, no, not "everyone" actually does that.

Difference is: programmers yield such satisfaction from coding, they might do it for free. Apparently, artists don't.


That reminds me of the picture with the homeless guy and a note saying:
"Will code for food"
XD

[Edited by - Vich on July 3, 2006 7:45:10 AM]

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Quote:
Original post by dbzprogrammer
Quote:
Original post by D Shankar
Well writing your own engine is extremely complicated. Even if you hire the best programmers, there are other good alternatives.

Torque is "the best engine" around. It costs $100 per developer in your team. You could go for a commerical liscense which is around $500 last time I checked. There are some hitches such as max amount of profit/revenue (not sure which).


Move over torque: C4


You've got to be kidding me.

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"Well, I don't want a free one. I want one that I can buy, so that I have the right to publish my games. So I suppose in that case it would be Irrlicht?"

If you don't know enough about how to research which engine is the best for your game I think you are going to have a hard time finishing your project. BTW if you are doing a 2D game Allegro and SDL are good choices.

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Well Highly United, I'll make it easy for you.

If you want to pay for your (game) engine:

Torque is number one for beginners. It has various packages of art and code snippets etc.; thats really helpful for a beginning developer. It costs $100 for one person (ideally the programmers and the lead developer should have the software).

C4 is growing nicely but I feel its more complicated. It is $100 as well. More options etc. and it can make a professional game, but it's gui etc. is more comprehensive & confusing.

I recommend Torque because with some basic programming you can get from nothing to a good demo in a much shorter period. (You'll have less to learn. You will understand its workflow and environment faster and easier).

If you want an FREE, open source (Graphics only) engine:

OGRE3d is your best bet. Promising games have been made in this graphics engine.

Crystal Space is rising quickly, but it requires a greater knowledge of programming skills.

Irrlicht is great if you're a beginning developer. The interface/code etc. is easier to understand.

The 3 above are only graphics engines, meaning you will have to code a significant part yourself. YOu will have to add plugins etc. You need a GUI system (ceGUI is a good one), if you have multiplayer you'll need another one, you'll need a physics engine (ODE or Newton Dynamics) so on.

Be warned, open source engines are more never the "complete package." You have to make your subsitutions and patch together a "package" like Torque. You'll never get the same quality/feel of a commerical GAME engine.

It's your call. If you want more info, just continue this thread. I'll be happy to help.

- Darshan "Nex" Shankar
Red Winter Studios,
Lead Producer.

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Nebula Device 2 is the best available engine right now compared to all the other offerings <$5000. It is under a free source license as well so you don't have to worry about licensing or anything of the sort. It is a free commercial game engine that is built very well and numerous commercial titles are developed on the platform.

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I use Ogre for my rendering and it is awesome. The thing is buddy, as some people are pointing out, making a game is a HUGE amount of work. Good luck whatever engine you choose.

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Original post by Highly United
Now I just need to know how much I would have to end up paying the programmers. lol


Warning: real, professional-related seriousness inside.

It depends. For example, you can rent me for 550$ per day (this is my market price as of today (read: this is how much I am rented by my boss to other companies. Of course, my salary is lower than that); it includes everything, from the taxes to my own paycheck at the end of the month; it do not includes any supplement that might be needed for overseas jobs). Of course, it seems to be a very high price but I'm a professional programmer (although I'm not a professional game programmer)

More seriously, programming a game costs a lot of time/money. If you are willing to pay for a complete team of good programmers/artists, prepare to spend a lot of your resources. Even if they cost you 20$ per day per person (and that's not a lot of money: can a US guy live with 400$ per month?), a team of 10 people will cost you 4,000$ per month - 48,000$ per year.

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Quote:
Original post by Highly United
lol I know about all of them as well. However, programmers are much harder to come by, and probably one of the hardest things to learn.

As for your original advice, which open source engine would you recommend, if any?

Thanks for all the help, everyone.


In my opinion, 3d modelling and animation is more difficult than programming . . .

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
"anyone" can learn programming, artistic talent is very rare. (composers, concept artists etc)

This comparison makes no sense, just like the following...
"anyone" can make graphics, programming talent is very rare.

btw, before you buy an engine, hire someone to decide what engine you want coz else im afraid u'll be wasting ur money.

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