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the Best Lanuage???

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Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
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Original post by Kevinator
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Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
With C# and Java, you start, normally, with the Forms.


A little bit of a semantic error there, don't you think?

Really where?


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Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
But normally with Java, you download a compiler and start programming from scratch. With C# and Java, you start, normally, with the Forms.


I think you meant "C# and VB". Anyway I think you're wrong, I haven't used the form designer once. The code is spits out is a mess, I see no real reason to use it for anything other than a purely GUI application.

[Edited by - Scet on July 3, 2006 2:35:43 PM]

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Original post by medevilenemy
Neither C++ or C is a complicated language in the least. There is very little memorization involved at all. First of all, the basic syntax of C++ is also shared by Java and C# (both of which are amazingly more complex in usage than either C or C++). Logically, the syntax wouldn't have spread as far if it were as hard to use as you say. Besides that, both C and C++ are based on a few simple statements (noteably: for, do, while, and if). C++ has classes, which are significantly more complicated but they are in basically all languages which have them. There is also a simple matter of explicit typecasting, which can be learned in about 5 minutes. The hardest part of learning either languge is the process of learning the library functions (for which documentation is avalable in many hundreds of forms online).

Learning a language is much more than just learning the syntax and the functions in the standard library. For example, in C and C++ you also have to deal with pointer correctness and explicit memory management. In C++ you need to worry about exception safety, Koenig lookup problems, all sorts of template idiocy, accidental creation of unnecessary temporaries and so on.

It's easy to write bad C or C++ code, it's hard to write even mediocre C++ code; a condition exacerbated by the number of ignorant, but well meaning authors who post "tutorials" on the internet that promote various bad programming habits just because they think that finally figuring out pointers somehow makes them experts in the field.

And, of course, the fact of the matter is that despite your claims, C++ syntax is hard. Compare how many threads we get with posters asking why their code won't even compile in C++ compared to any number of other languages. We have quite a few C# users here, and most of them don't need help with syntax twice a week. Instead they ask questions about algorithms or rendering techniques. Just because other languages have similar syntax doesn't mean they have similar syntactic difficulties. For the most part, languages that use C or C++ like syntax use a simplified version of the syntax* that make things much easier to learn and get right.


* the obvious exceptions being Managed C++ and C++/CLI

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Somebody needs to create some minor varient of an existing language and call it "Best". Then we'd have an answer to this question.

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Oh, brother...
[bangs head against wall]
...not another one of these.

Anyway, you should probably start with Java just to get the idea of programming. Then move to C then to C++. If you do that, you will already know C# and VB for all practical purposes, so it's just a matter of relating what you know of Java to the .NET framework, which is the C#/VB.NET analog of the Java libraries.

And then, just to keep the flamebait tradition alive, you should start a thread called "Why does C++ suck so bad?". [grin]

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Quote:
Original post by medevilenemy
Neither C++ or C is a complicated language in the least. There is very little memorization involved at all. First of all, the basic syntax of C++ is also shared by Java and C# (both of which are amazingly more complex in usage than either C or C++).


This is a rather strange notion of 'complexity' being used here. :/

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C++ is the last language that made a La-Creme-Du-La-Cream status...
Many now are struggling to achieve that status but have failed since they do not introduce (merge) exciting new features (flame me :p), they are just alternative languages (talking only about procedural languages, not so well informed on others)..
Once you learn C++ you can easily (in a weak at most) pick up C# (which is evolving as we speak), VB.Net(not necessary if you learn C#) and Java (?).

Unfortunately, it is VERY hard for a beginner (at least if you were in my shoes) to create GUI in C++ upstart. You'll first have to master the C++ language in a console-based environment.. I like this because it gives you a real grip over algorithms and computations. Then you'd have to learn a graphics library (OpenGL, DirectX.. can't really advise since I only thus far learned DX) and other libraries for whatever things you need. I think I'd be on the NON-FLAMABLE side if I advise not to consider creating pure GUI applications using C++ since Microsoft deprecates it, all GameDev members hates it and never ever ever consider or even go searching for the dreaded MFCs.

I'd be more than happy to answer more questions or stand-corrected.

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Could people please stop saying which languages they started with. Just because you found it to be a good starting language it doesn't mean that it is a good starting language for other people.

My reccomendation would be to try several different languages and choose the one that you feel most comfortable using and that you understand the best.

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The BEST language is whichever language meets your specific needs for a given task; that said, for many tasks, MOST languages are pretty good.

Many languages have been used succesfully to make games, and it's not uncommon for different parts of a game to be written in different languages. The current standard is C++, but before that, many games were programmed in C. A lot of older console games were written in assembly. Naughty Dog writes their AI code in Lisp. EA wrote several Sega Genesis games in Pascal. Nowadays more and more people are using languages like C#, Java, and Python. Some games use Python, Lua, or Ruby as scripting languages; some even use proprietary scripting languages.

Language choice should be driven primarily by what kind of syntax you like using and what level of abstraction you like working at.

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