Programming

For Beginners

Started by FPL_Programming July 06, 2006 03:31 PM

35 comments, last by torakka 17 years, 9 months ago

1,682

July 06, 2006 05:32 PM

Quote:Original post by Dreq
"Wont learn how to problem solve":
Oh so assembly has absolutely no problem solving at all?

Not the kind of problem solving that's actually useful; the student will be too busy solving lower-level problems.

Quote:"she/he wont learn how to design large programs and design them good":
And visual basic is supposed to be better?

VB is pretty roundly criticized anyway; I have no idea why you're picking it as an alternative. But regardless, you can't realistically hope to write anything *big* in assembly language, or really *design* things properly.

Quote:"she/he wont be exposed to any form of programming abstractions and no i don't mean just "OO""
Thats kind of the point...

What, because abstractions are something difficult to deal with? How do you ever manage to buy things these days? Doesn't it irritate you that you can't *really* go to the bank and demand the gold backing for your currency?

Abstractions exist precisely so that you don't have to think about details that are irrelevant to your task. You don't need to be a mechanic to drive; to most people, the internal combustion engine is an abstract thing that makes the car go forward when you step on the gas pedal.

Quote:
And, I close with the following passage:
dcl_2d s0dcl t0.xytexld r1, t0, s0mov oC0, r1
Know what that is?

No. And incidentally, *that's* "kind of the point".

Quote:And thanks for the negative raiting!

Here, have one from me, too. :\

Dreq

100

July 06, 2006 05:36 PM

Quote:Original post by Dreq
Learn x86 assembly :)

Um.. C++ is the de-facto for game programming. I myself use C# but I don't think any professional companies are using C# to write games (yet anyway).

Read it again.. The smily was meant as a joke, but you guys just had to pick it apart and jump on me.. The only reason why I even explained it further was because he asked. Of course, answering him is aparently a 'hate crime' here if it goes against your views. Thats ok though, its what I expect ;)

as far as "No. And incidentally, *that's* "kind of the point"." is concerned... That just goes to show you that... you know what, nevermind, I'm wasting my time (this is where someone posts back about how i'm wasting ~theirs~).

"Mommy, where do microprocessors come from?"

jjd

2,140

July 06, 2006 05:37 PM

Quote:Original post by Dreq
<snip>

Looks like you picked the wrong forum to present a dissenting opinion... :/

--www.physicaluncertainty.com
--linkedin
--irc.freenode.net#gdnet

darookie

1,441

July 06, 2006 05:42 PM

Quote:Original post by Dreq
"Wont learn how to problem solve":
Oh so assembly has absolutely no problem solving at all?

x86 assembly isn't that useful for a beginner to solve problems. This isn't ye' olde DOS days anymore. In order to do something useful, i.e. output results on the screen, you'll have to call API functions. And sorry, but I don't think this...

.386.model flat, stdcalloption casemap : noneinclude \masm32\include\windows.incinclude \masm32\include\kernel32.incincludelib \masm32\lib\kernel32.libinclude \masm32\include\user32.incincludelib \masm32\lib\user32.lib.dataMsgBoxCaption  db "This is so helpful...",0MsgBoxText     db "Win32 Assembly for teh win!!11!1!",0.codestart:invoke MessageBox, NULL, addr MsgBoxText, addr MsgBoxCaption, MB_OKinvoke ExitProcess, NULLend start

is of any use for learning how to solve problem. Really. Not at all.

Quote:
"she/he wont learn how to design large programs and design them good":
And visual basic is supposed to be better?

Uhm...

MsgBox("...yes indeed!", vbOk, "Actually...")

Quote:
"she/he wont be exposed to any form of programming abstractions and no i don't mean just "OO""
Thats kind of the point...

Well yes, it is.

Quote:
And, I close with the following passage:
dcl_2d s0dcl t0.xytexld r1, t0, s0mov oC0, r1
Know what that is? A pixel shader programOutdated. Huzaaa.

"With Direct3D 10 the use of assembly shaders has been almost eliminated – effect files and 'pure' shaders are now expressed only in HLSL form."
Huzaa indeed.

Best regards,
Pat.

(And no, I didn't rate you down)

Dreq

100

July 06, 2006 05:46 PM

Well I'm done arguing either way.

"Mommy, where do microprocessors come from?"

JBourrie

1,204

July 06, 2006 05:56 PM

Quote:Read it again.. The smily was meant as a joke, but you guys just had to pick it apart and jump on me.. The only reason why I even explained it further was because he asked.

I actually chuckled when I read the joke, and then got a bit frustrated when people started thinking you were serious and fishing for a flame war. But you took the bait, man. You took the bait... [lol]

x86 assembly is the greatest language ever, because I hate myself. If you hate yourself and want to wish you had never been born, you should definitely learn x86 assembly first. :) <-See, smiley!

Otherwise, you should leave it until you have some (read:alot) of knowledge of programming. That extra bit of oomph gained by using assembly on PC used to be a big deal, nowadays it's not quite so useful... the compilers are pretty damn good.

Anyway, as they said above, C++ is the "standard" (if one can exist), though once you've learned one language (except assembly or lisp) you will have a much easier time learning others (even VB).

Good luck!

Check out my new game Smash and Dash at:

http://www.smashanddashgame.com/

FPL_Programming

122

Author

July 06, 2006 07:16 PM

hmmm it seems i've started some arguing, my bad. but thanks for the help, i will be looking into c++ more and a little bit of c#. i know vb isn't the greatest, i never said it was. that just happens to be the first language i learned in school and the one that got me into programming. that's the whole point of this thread, to find out what other languages i should be studying if i want to make this my career. no need to flame.

Sr_Guapo

876

July 06, 2006 08:25 PM

Quote:Original post by FPL_Programming
hmmm it seems i've started some arguing, my bad. but thanks for the help, i will be looking into c++ more and a little bit of c#. i know vb isn't the greatest, i never said it was. that just happens to be the first language i learned in school and the one that got me into programming. that's the whole point of this thread, to find out what other languages i should be studying if i want to make this my career. no need to flame.

Nothing is inherently wrong with Visual Basic. I myself progrqammed for years in Visual asic before moving on to C++. However, it is possible to program with visual basic that can make learning other languages more difficult. I recommend looking at C#. It's syntax is quite different from VB, but will help immensly once you start looking into C++ and/or java, as the syntax is similar.

Good Luck!

Sean Henley [C++ Tutor]Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

darrenc182

393

July 06, 2006 08:49 PM

Why are beginners always so focused on what language to learn when it comes to programming when they can barely program. I think they need to learn simpler languages like BASIC, QBASIC, VisualBasic before even thinking of learning a language like C++. I have no idea why anyone would consider learning x86 ASM first, that's just crazy

FPL_Programming

122

Author

July 06, 2006 08:53 PM

no need to get chippy

Programming

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