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FasT

OpenGL DirectX

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First off all, Hello ! i just started to learn VS C++ and i want to use them to learn Gameprogramming in OpenGL or DirectX... since im a beginer at all theese things, its posible (90%) that my questions sound realy dumb and stuff... but the best way to learn something is to ask someone who knows the stuff, and a Forum is the best place ( i think ) so i realy hope to get some help. Please ... :) I see that some people use DirectX with VS and some use OpenGL... Im stil learning all this stuff so befor i start to learn GL or DirectX i wanted to know whats the diference and what is better for a total beginner? it would be nice got get awnser to the following questions: [1] Diference between OpenGL and DirectX ( no need for a long lection :P .. a simple awnser will be enough ). [2] What is better to start with for a total bginer ( OpenGL or DirectX ) [3] If posible.. could somebody please post a link to a site that has some examples of simple (complete / demo) DirectX projects.. i saw some OpenGL projects and that kinda inspired me to learn this stuff :P ... anyway i didnt find any site with DirectX simple works from simple people like you or me... So a link would be great.. [4] Okey this may realy sound very stupid --> Is there a site explaining what is a 3D Engine and how to create one of your own... i know that the 3d engine has to do something with the graphic and stuff but thats all.. so i realy would like to learn more about this... -FasT

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go with openGL its easier to learn and compatible with new updates and other oses. directx you gotta make changes with every update.

this topic pops up quite frequently try doing search on the beginner forum youll get a better answer.

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Okey thanks for your advices :)

but im stil having a problem...

i cannot decide what VS version i should use as a beginner...
I am using now the VS Express but its a bit confusing for me ... and with that SDK platform stuff ( that must be special added to VS Express) thats too confusing for a beginner like me...

So can you sugest some VS version for a beginner who wants to start programming with openGL ? ( some VS version that includes the windows.h and dosent need the SDK platform...) [ just the name of the VS would be a great help..]

I got the VS Express Edition for few days and all i have done with it sofar is problems, errors, confusion etc.
I know that some people use more simpler versions of VS but dont know what versions they use..



(sorry if my posts are dumb or something like that... its just hard to start learning something new, and forums are good places to get started...
so i realy, realy, realy need your help)

-FasT

[Edited by - FasT on July 20, 2006 6:14:32 PM]

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I use VS 2003 Enterprise Architect and I love it. I don't have alot of working knowledge with VS 2005 Express. Another one that I almot like as well as VS2003 is Code::Blocks. In some ways its better. It's alot lighter and down to point. Also, it's free!

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Visual c++ 2005 Express edition is probably more than enough for you right now (and it has an awesome debugger). Any other versions will cost you many $$$ which would be silly because you won't use all the features the professional versions provide (well, maybe one or two tiny things like the resource editor, but not many others).
That said, if you follow the instructions on the Microsoft website for installing the platform SDK -- it really is quite easy.

I would recommend to you that if you haven't got the patience to learn how to use your IDE properly that you may not enjoy programming much at all -- it requires lots of patience and the ability to find things out on your own. So, rather than jumping right into more advanced OpenGL & DirectX coding, I think you should become familiar with your language of choice first -- I'm going to assume that is C++.

If I am right about the language choice, check out the C++ workshop that some forum regulars are running right now. I know they've moved along on subject matter to somewhat more advanced things but there's nothing to stop you doing it in your own time -- after all, gotta walk before you run.

Check out the workshop here

Sorry if I sound cynical, but I just don't want to see you scared off gamedev by attempting something that requires a decent amount of programming knowledge in order to do it properly :)

Let us know if you need any more help/pointers.

~Shiny.

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Yes, sorry to break it to you and I don't mean to sound rude, but if you can't get VSC++ Express working, you might as well give up hope for OpenGL as well. The point is, the instructions might seem confusing, but once you're following them, they're extremely easy. After all, it gets you to get a better feel of your environment. And that's the only free version, and we do suggest you either use free or buy what you use :P

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Quote:
Original post by blanky
Yes, sorry to break it to you and I don't mean to sound rude, but if you can't get VSC++ Express working, you might as well give up hope for OpenGL as well. The point is, the instructions might seem confusing, but once you're following them, they're extremely easy. After all, it gets you to get a better feel of your environment. And that's the only free version, and we do suggest you either use free or buy what you use :P

Well, IMHO all of the VS editions are fairly convaluted. If you miss one thing in the instructions, poof, it doesn't work as expected. Simple mistakes are the easiest to make as well. Like for example pressing the close button instead of the minimize button and loosing an hour of work.

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I followed the instructions to apply Platform SDK for VS EE...

now when i run some app's i dont get the Windows.h error anymore..

But still got some problems there

[1] Still cant slect The MFS / ATL from appWiz

[2] When i try to debug and run the project i get an cl.exe error

Command Lines

Creating temporary file "c:\Documents and Settings\User\Desktop\test\test\Debug\RSP00000336723176.rsp" with contents
[
/Od /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_WINDOWS" /D "_UNICODE" /D "UNICODE" /Gm /EHsc /RTC1 /MDd /Yu"stdafx.h" /Fp"Debug\test.pch" /Fo"Debug\\" /Fd"Debug\vc80.pdb" /W3 /c /Wp64 /ZI /TP ".\test.cpp"
]
Creating command line "cl.exe @"c:\Documents and Settings\User\Desktop\test\test\Debug\RSP00000336723176.rsp" /nologo /errorReport:prompt"
Creating temporary file "c:\Documents and Settings\User\Desktop\test\test\Debug\RSP00000436723176.rsp" with contents
[
/Od /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_WINDOWS" /D "_UNICODE" /D "UNICODE" /Gm /EHsc /RTC1 /MDd /Yc"stdafx.h" /Fp"Debug\test.pch" /Fo"Debug\\" /Fd"Debug\vc80.pdb" /W3 /c /Wp64 /ZI /TP ".\stdafx.cpp"
]
Creating command line "cl.exe @"c:\Documents and Settings\User\Desktop\test\test\Debug\RSP00000436723176.rsp" /nologo /errorReport:prompt"

Output Window

Compiling...
Project : error PRJ0003 : Error spawning 'cl.exe'.

Is it posible that i made a mistake somewhere when i was setting up Platform SDK x86

or the problem is somewhere else ?

i never had this problem so i dont know how to solve it.. :(

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Quote:
Original post by -JetSirus-
Quote:
Original post by blanky
Yes, sorry to break it to you and I don't mean to sound rude, but if you can't get VSC++ Express working, you might as well give up hope for OpenGL as well. The point is, the instructions might seem confusing, but once you're following them, they're extremely easy. After all, it gets you to get a better feel of your environment. And that's the only free version, and we do suggest you either use free or buy what you use :P

Well, IMHO all of the VS editions are fairly convaluted. If you miss one thing in the instructions, poof, it doesn't work as expected. Simple mistakes are the easiest to make as well. Like for example pressing the close button instead of the minimize button and loosing an hour of work.


Well, like most programs, VS either save your files when you close it or at least ask you if you want to save them (even if they don't belong to your project). But anyway, closing a program instead of minimizing it is what I would call a VS-related problem [smile]

I actually like the way VS is convoluted. For a professional programmer, you can't find a best IDE at this time.

Regards,

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Quote:
Original post by FasT
[1] Still cant slect The MFS / ATL from appWiz


If you mean MFC, that's because it's not included with the Express Edition of VC++.

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yeah i know that MFC is not included in VS EE and thats why i setup the SDK Platform ( x86 ) ... after that i didnd get any errors about the Windows.h
but got some new problems.. ( look up ^ )

If you know what i did wrong or how to fix that or whats the problem ( probably im stupid thats the problem :P ) anyway Any help is heavy apriciated

I did ask this question befor but didnt get an awnser...

Is there a VS that includes MFC ATL windows.h and all that kinda stuff ?

Thanks!
-FasT

[Edited by - FasT on July 21, 2006 11:58:06 AM]

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windows.h comes with the Platform SDK. If you followed all the directions on the VS install page, you should have access to it.

MFC (and I believe ATL as well) do not come with the Platform SDK. There is no way to obtain them without paying for them. MFC is not exactly worth your time anyways, as it has been superceded by newer technology, and you don't need it to learn OpenGL.

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oh okey so thats good news about MFC and stuff

about the platform now...

I used the alternative way to edit the directories...
in step 3
i edited all the line as it was told in file VCProjectEngine.dll.express.config
but there i got 2 problems:
[1] There was no line that sayd ( Executable="lalala\bin" )
do i have to write it ? ( probably yes but just want to be sure )

[2] there are 2 files named (VCProjectEngine.dll.express.config) thi oly diference is that one includes the word "dll" in caps mode other without
(DLL \ dll) so do i have to edit them both ?

and i also did something wrong with Path="...."
could all that be the reason why i get an cl.exe error ( ERROR: cant spawn cl.exe) ??

Or am i totaly wrong? and if so then a solution or at least a tiny help would be arpiciated

Thanks !
-FasT

[Edited by - FasT on July 21, 2006 1:08:32 PM]

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