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MMORPG - Community Project

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Recently, I've come to a conclusion there are really no exciting MMORPGs. All the one's out now are either poorly produced, not popular, or just a plain grind. The only decent mmorpg out right now is World Of Warcraft. Which eventually just becomes 'raid or die' end game. I am thinking about creating a mmorpg. I'm just curious is there any engine out there that can support a rpg that isn't too expensive or even free. Ideas guys, toss out any. :D

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Quote:
Original post by Empire1
Recently, I've come to a conclusion there are really no exciting MMORPGs. All the one's out now are either poorly produced, not popular, or just a plain grind. The only decent mmorpg out right now is World Of Warcraft. Which eventually just becomes 'raid or die' end game. I am thinking about creating a mmorpg. I'm just curious is there any engine out there that can support a rpg that isn't too expensive or even free. Ideas guys, toss out any. :D




I think you should write a game design about that MMORPG you want to create.

How do you want to make it better then other games or better then WoW?


Then think about how long you need to code for each feature and when your done, you will propably notice that this project wont ever come to an end or it will not be that "exciting" like World of Warcraft.

If you try to learn something of it or just want to create an MMORPG as a "small" project, thats OK, but dont think that you will be able to create something "better" then WoW or other MMORPGs on the market.

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You are asking for something verrry tricky here. World of Warcraft, which is "decent" by your standards, cost $63 million dollars and took four and a half years to develop. Now, you want to make a game that is *better* than WoW, but you don't want to spend much money on it.

I believe that you will find that there is a reason why no current MMO is very good.

But, if you are going through with this, take the time to plan ahead. Alot. Both in game design and in programming.

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Ezbez is correct. If you want to produce a 'deep' game, there's a hell of a lot of work that needs to be done, and NO third party solution will do it for you - they may present rendering and networking support, but the actual mechanics of your game are left up to you.

Edit: As far as community MMO projects go, there's DogCity's Tearsol Online, which is looking very nice, and is already functioning - it's a fairly simple, 3D MMORPG, and I think it looks like it'll be great fun. Then there's my firm's projects, Primogen and Bloodspear, which are technically very complex, pro-grade projects, more suited to 'experienced' candidates. There's also bam104's Red Online, which has a great setting, set of mechanics and a very strong visual design behind it, but is in need of production artists (rather than concept) and programmers.

Each project will have it's own recruitment criteria, and I think the leads of each project are approachable with ideas and suggestions, provided they're well thought out and come with some suggestion of implementation. Basically don't waste anyone's time with 'I wnat to marrie teh Hulk and play hockey' concepts or if you're brave enough discuss concepts on here - you'll either get ripped to shreds, or you'll get the benefit of having your idea pushed along by the community.



[Edited by - _winterdyne_ on July 28, 2006 5:54:01 AM]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Have a look at this.. based on the Torque game engine.
http://www.mydreamrpg.com/
http://www.garagegames.com/

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I would say that you should begin by making a game that focuses on being fun and avoiding grind.

Design it to be as small and simple as posible, and follow this design. Besides avoiding doing things that are not needed, you can have a meassure of how much of the game you have done.

You don't need the lastest and craziest technology, choose based on how fast you can develop with them and how easy.

Use code, graphics and sounds available from free sources.

Random generators are your friends. The deepness of the things created by the generator will depend on him, and you can avoid creating material for the game(for example maps).

At first you will probably have to do things on your own, but as soon as you have *anything* to show, you can put up a website and request for help, even thought people asking "when will it be finished?" will drive you nuts.

These are just some thoughts. I'm assuming(hoping) you know the basics of game creation and have some experience.

You obviously should write a design first, if you want you can post it in gamedev stating that what you want the most from the design is for it to be easy and quick to develop while avoiding the grind. After you are happy with your design and you have integrated changes based on the feedback, move to the next step :)

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this will be hard, an mmo can take years to make from start to finish. finding a team will be even harder. why? because evereybody wants to make an mmo. but if can get a good team then your fine

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I have been thinking about this recently, and I know you all have doubts. This MMO would not be 3d, but rather a 2d game like Ultima Online or Runescape.

Here's what I'm thinking right now. A 2d game with the view above the character. Made with Python and Pygame( www.python.org , www.pygame.org ).

This idea does not sound that interesting, but this could easily turn into a community project, with some of the best mmo ideas built by the community.

Here's what im thinking for starters.

-Easy leveling
-Town/City Raids
-Siege Weapons
-Hero classes ( Hero classes can take a long time to achieve )
-Dungeon Raids
-A large list of classes/skills


This is just for starters, if this seems like a good idea please give some feedback in this thread. If you guys like this idea I will most likely start a website/recruitment thread in the next day.

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Whoa there! It's way too early to start recruitment. As the projects in the Help Wanted forum show, no one joins a project unless the team has something to show for themselves. At the very least you need (depending on your skills) a well thought out design document, some programming already done, or a lot of sample art work.

You might also want to consider what your motivation is. The only reason I see to start a MMO game is a deep desire to make a MMO game. If your goal is to learn how to design and build a client/server architecture, or to draw a full set of RPG sprites, then this project might be fun. But understand that making a polished game is an awful lot of work, and making a MMO is an order of magnitude harder.

In other words, you might need to put some more time into development to get a feel of whether you really want to commit to something this big before recruiting anyone else [smile].

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Quote:
Original post by Empire1
I have been thinking about this recently, and I know you all have doubts. This MMO would not be 3d, but rather a 2d game like Ultima Online or Runescape.

Here's what I'm thinking right now. A 2d game with the view above the character. Made with Python and Pygame( www.python.org , www.pygame.org ).

This idea does not sound that interesting, but this could easily turn into a community project, with some of the best mmo ideas built by the community.

Here's what im thinking for starters.

-Easy leveling
-Town/City Raids
-Siege Weapons
-Hero classes ( Hero classes can take a long time to achieve )
-Dungeon Raids
-A large list of classes/skills


This is just for starters, if this seems like a good idea please give some feedback in this thread. If you guys like this idea I will most likely start a website/recruitment thread in the next day.


I don't think you have what could be called an "idea" as of yet. How will this be different to any other MMORPG? Why will this be more fun than WoW? Your "idea" at the moment seems nothing more than "to make a MMORPG". Well fair enough, but hundreds of people - myself included - have that very same idea. The one thing that alters between pretty much all RPGs is the combat system - I suggest this is where you begin. You need to design a system that is creative and fun to stand out (because lets face it, despite being one of the most important aspects of any RPG, the combat systems in current games are pretty freaking boring!). Don't just base this off something you've seen in a different game - there's a reason why the latest RPG always has a new battle system: because nobody has done a perfect one yet. Find something different, not necessarily radically different, but definately different. Once you have an idea for combat, you have an idea for a game.

That you're opting for 2d is no bad thing; graphics are not a major aspect of an RPG, and in many cases 2d looks better anyway if you get good artists (though I must say if you're planning on a particularly large world - like you should - then this will mean a lot of work for your unfortunate artists).

Large list of classes and skills? That's easy enough to say, but how will you make each unique? A problem many RPGs find is that there are only a small number of different ways you can deal damage to an opponent, and generally classes that specialise in support roles are unpopular in the online game (ever played as a monk in Guild Wars? It feels more like forced labour than playing a game). Balance is, of course, a major issue for any game, but especially so in a MMORPG where character customization plays such a big role, so make sure there are no sucky classes.

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Quote:
Original post by BBHudson
Quote:
Original post by Empire1
I have been thinking about this recently, and I know you all have doubts. This MMO would not be 3d, but rather a 2d game like Ultima Online or Runescape.

Here's what I'm thinking right now. A 2d game with the view above the character. Made with Python and Pygame( www.python.org , www.pygame.org ).

This idea does not sound that interesting, but this could easily turn into a community project, with some of the best mmo ideas built by the community.

Here's what im thinking for starters.

-Easy leveling
-Town/City Raids
-Siege Weapons
-Hero classes ( Hero classes can take a long time to achieve )
-Dungeon Raids
-A large list of classes/skills


This is just for starters, if this seems like a good idea please give some feedback in this thread. If you guys like this idea I will most likely start a website/recruitment thread in the next day.


I don't think you have what could be called an "idea" as of yet. How will this be different to any other MMORPG? Why will this be more fun than WoW? Your "idea" at the moment seems nothing more than "to make a MMORPG". Well fair enough, but hundreds of people - myself included - have that very same idea. The one thing that alters between pretty much all RPGs is the combat system - I suggest this is where you begin. You need to design a system that is creative and fun to stand out (because lets face it, despite being one of the most important aspects of any RPG, the combat systems in current games are pretty freaking boring!). Don't just base this off something you've seen in a different game - there's a reason why the latest RPG always has a new battle system: because nobody has done a perfect one yet. Find something different, not necessarily radically different, but definately different. Once you have an idea for combat, you have an idea for a game.

That you're opting for 2d is no bad thing; graphics are not a major aspect of an RPG, and in many cases 2d looks better anyway if you get good artists (though I must say if you're planning on a particularly large world - like you should - then this will mean a lot of work for your unfortunate artists).

Large list of classes and skills? That's easy enough to say, but how will you make each unique? A problem many RPGs find is that there are only a small number of different ways you can deal damage to an opponent, and generally classes that specialise in support roles are unpopular in the online game (ever played as a monk in Guild Wars? It feels more like forced labour than playing a game). Balance is, of course, a major issue for any game, but especially so in a MMORPG where character customization plays such a big role, so make sure there are no sucky classes.



How will it be more work for the artists? IMO 2d is easier to perfect on an MMO and works and handles a lot better. Especially if you want a good combat system.

My idea isn't going to be better then WOW, but it will be an original MMO. All the MMO's are promising that list, but no MMO's actually have any of that. The main focus of this is going to be PVP. And as of the combat system, I'm going to be laying that out tomorrow all on paper, and throughout this weekend. I hope to be writing my design documentation soon. First I will have to research different game engines, some nedieval history, and create the basic structure for the game. Suggestions are welcome, also constructive criticism is welcome. Please don't tell me this will be too hard to achieve, I am devoted to making this a reality. I have the resources needed as far as funding etc.

I will be back with a thorough design doc, and a basic website soon. Until then keep the posts rolling.


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Original post by Empire1
How will it be more work for the artists? IMO 2d is easier to perfect on an MMO and works and handles a lot better. Especially if you want a good combat system.


2d is easier to work with for the designers and programmers, and you can indeed argue that it suits that style of game better, but it is a misconception that it is easier for the artist. Though creating a 3d model takes more time than drawing a sprite, once you have that model you can view it from any angle, and animating it is very easy. With 2d, you need new sprites for every angle and animation you want to include, so depending on just how many animations you need, it can mean more work in the long run. However, 2d does have the advantage of being cheaper; you can draw sprites perfectly well on a number of free programs, but to make good 3d models requires some expensive software.

Making this game would not be an impossible project, though it might be very difficult and probably won't turn out to be what you intended. However, it won't take too long to get say, a single town and dungeon with one character class and a couple of different monsters up and running on a server. Once you have this you can start people playing and gradually add in more things as you make them. The true difficulties of this kind of project lie in the vastness of the world you are probably aiming to create, but if you start out small and gradually build up it is indeed possible. Good luck with it!

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Empire1: I'm speechless, or rather, I'm confused and disappointed and feel helpless and it's not a new feeling. I have this feeling whenever I read a thread like this one. I wonder to myself what I can possibly write to help you out, and the answer is usually, nothing. Not because I don't have good advice, or because I think you couldn't benefit from some of the stuff I know, the only reason I have nothing to give you is because you have demonstrated that you are not willing to take.

If I am mistaken then I heartily apologize and offer you a friendly ear, should you have questions during development do feel free to pm me. I won't be quite so morose once you have some neat stuff to show. [wink]

Winterdyne, thanks for the mention [smile], I'll be getting the old Help Wanted add's going again in a week or so, i'm looking for another server developer. If no one suitable turns up i'm hoping we can discuss how you could help out with a few bits and bobs. No need to contact me, just a heads up.

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If you just want to design some stuff and create something very fast, then I would suggest to start of with altering an UltimaOnline Freeshard-engine.

There are projects out there where you have many options. You may code new stuff, alter just some skills or make it entirele new.

But you have something to build on, working pathfinding, network-stuff, UI, etc.


Wish you best luck on your MMO.

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