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# Windows XP

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quote:
Original post by Cyberdrek

Ok, I have some corrections to bring to what you just said. First of all, I''m a Mac and PC user. Now, as far as I can tell, I''ve seen Windows XP and there''s no way it looks like Mac OS, only people that don''t know Mac would say that it''s a clone. But as for the rest, Windows XP just sucks big time. The reason it sucks so bad is because I find that you don''t have enough control over the system. Anyhow, these are my views.

Cyberdrek
A division of DLC Multimedia

I didn''t mean to imply that it is a clone, I think they are borrowing certain elements from it though. It does look more like MacOS that it used to .

"Finger to spiritual emptiness underlying everything." -- How a C manual referred to a "pointer to void." --Things People Said

http://www.gdarchive.net/druidgames/

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I love Microsoft no matter what, I have the highest respect in their company (especially Bill''s check accounts, and my stock), and I know that the registration system they''re toying with will not be this horrible thing all of you are dreading. They aren''t AOL. They know what consumers want, Bill Gates knows how to deliver people what they want. Even if the programmers can''t make their OS as stable as Linux currently is (which is going to be changing, very soon.)

Is that a troll?

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It''s funny when people say Windows isn''t as stable as Linux. What version of Windows are you talking about? Windows 9x? Windows 2000? If you are comparing Linux and Windows 2000 then you have a problem. Windows 2000 is just as stable, if not more than Linux AND it is more usable (and can handle games too).

Windows 98 SE was as stable as a rock for me. Windows Millenium gives me numerous problems but Windows 2000 Pro is rock solid.

Dire Wolf
www.digitalfiends.com

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To all the ppl whining about why we don''t just all stop using MS products if we dont like em. Umm hello? U just posted on a programming forum! In case you haven''t noticed, programmers like writing programs for platforms where they will have an audience, which in turn = money, fame, happiness, spiritual innerness, or whatever the programmer is trying to achieve. Most ppl use Windows. A successful boycott of Windows would require getting rid of all the damn computer newbies, then forcing all smart computer ppl to use Linux, at gunpoint if necessary. Soon Windows would be no more.

btw Null and Void: mind if i use ur Resist WinXP banner in my sig?

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quote:
Original post by shinryuu
Clearly, corporations are not trustworthy. So we need to build new methods of economic organization in order to stop the abuses from corporations, and other organized hierarchal power structures. After the fall of the Soviet Union, a Polish person was able to emigrate to America. He said that the inner workings of corporations are much the same as the inner workings of the Soviet Union. It''s time for a new revolution. We need to build a new economic philosophy that is able to both create wealth for all, and to uphold the political, social, and economic rights of the individual. Linux, here I come.

Personally, I don''t care about your political affiliations. I hope you don''t mind me omitting that.

A few problems:
"Wealth for all"- Such a thing cannot exist. How would we judge our wealth without some sort of standard? Do you mean to give the same amount of money to an underqualified person as a superb worker? You would honestly reward inferioriority with greater amounts of money?

"Economic rights"- Excuse me. My email should be displayed. Tell me how we have economic rights. How about political rights? Even social rights? This things all vary from nation to nation. Some things allowed as ''rights'' in the States do not apply here in Canada, and we''re neighbours! Longest undefended border and all!

About Windows: What Microsoft does is it''s business, and precisely that. Microsoft is a business. Why should we make something free? Give an inch, take a mile. Just because some of us wouldn''t pirate software (RIGHT!) doesn''t mean others wouldn''t. If it inconveniences some but prevents (At least somewhat) an act that is illegal, it''s justified. The moment it gives you PROBLEMS it''s not. And having to pay for something is not a problem unless you''re flat out broke. In which case why are you on computer?

Hey, LordElectro: Null and Void - "Nice to see I haven''t been thoroughly flamed yet, heh. I''m actually hoping to convince other people to use my sig. pic, so go ahead (http://www.crosswinds.net/~druidgames/resist.jpg, my old server, before they put banners on my site) ... please ."

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Sure LordElectro, as Elgee pointed out, I''m actually hoping for more than one person to use it. It isn''t real nice looking (about 15 seconds with Photoshop and a screen shot of Microsoft.com =P), but it gets the point across. I won''t take the image down from the server, since I don''t use that one anymore, and don''t care about their hard drive usage .

"Finger to spiritual emptiness underlying everything." -- How a C manual referred to a "pointer to void." --Things People Said

http://www.gdarchive.net/druidgames/

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I think this is one of the dumbest ideas Microsoft has come up with to date. Before you yell troll, consider:

The only software companies that have been truly successful at the "rental" idea are those who have relatively large and absolutely necessary pieces of that software that you must connect to in order to make your client software work, e.g. most MMORPGS like Everquest, Asheron''s Call, Ultima Online, etc. Even for these, people write emulators so that you don''t have to pay to play. Now, if they did this to Office, what could they possibly put on the server that people couldn''t live without? And would people who do a lot of travelling be happy about having to be connected in order to use Word? Don''t think so.

If there''s no "missing piece", what compelling reason would people have to register so they had to pay monthly fees? Sure, you can require activation numbers every month, but... I highly doubt it would take any more than 24 hours for the first crack to come out once the new style of Office is released. As is the case with any online game, ANYTHING you put on the client can and will be tampered with.

All this is going to do is screw over those who have been faithful registered users, and probably make some of the people who have been faithful about using licensed products both ticked and willing to stop being such shining pillars of righteousness (as in, many will say screw it and get cracked versions.) It''s most certainly not going to fix the currently rampant piracy problem, and it''s probably going to make many companies who actually would have to be good little registered users consider buying software from someone other than Microsoft. Microsoft doesn''t make the only office suite, I assure you. Sure, people might be willing to rent the OS itself if they really really have to, but the rest of the software? Doubt it.

-fel

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Well, ok, as i don''t use Windows, i can''t say too much on this subject, but i will say that if you are looking for Linux help, IRC to irc.openprojects.net #linpeople, or the name of the distro you''re using.

I use Linux as my one and only OS. I don''t think it''s for everyone (at least not right now), but i do think that it''s great for development and power users. So, how can a game programmer use it? Actually, cross-developing is pretty easy. Linux users are used to dealing with users of other OS''s, and it''s not as hard as some companies would have you believe. Libraries like SDL (www.libsdl.org) make the process a breeze. Writing a game that works on Windows, Linux, BeOS, MacOS, MacOSX, FreeBSD, Irix, and Solaris all at once isn''t really too much more diffecult than writing a Windows game, and the process of testing on different architectures really helps bring out the bugs that might otherwise go uncaught.

I guess my point is that you really can use other operating systems without much problem. John Carmack developed Quake on NeXT, for example. Don''t let fear stop you, educate yourself.

There''s a learning curve on Linux, but if you use your computer enough, as i imagine just about anyone on this forum does, the time spent learning the software will be worth it compared to the time saved using a streamlined system customized just for you.

Oh, and i can''t resist taking the trollbait. Sorry. Dire.Wolf: i''ve seen Win2k installations that approach the uptimes and stability of a properly configured Linux system, but they''re the exception, not the rule. On average, Linux is still more stable. This is not to say that Linux is perfect either: VMS has mean uptimes measured in years, which i don''t believe Linux has yet, though there are examples of systems that have been up for that kind of time. However, i''ll admit, Win2k is a great step forward in the Windows desktop-- it''s just too bad it''s being marketed as a server OS.

-ben.c

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Windows XP... hmmmm.

Currently XP stands for eXPerience, but unfortunately I have my doubts about this OS. If M$doesn''t provide a version of WinXP that I can purchase and not "rent", then I will almost definiately stick with Win2k until I can learn enough Linux to ditch Windows altogether. Microsoft is a bunch of whining bitches, they whine about piracy, so they put in a registration code. However IF they did make a decent OS and made upgrades free, then people would actually purchase it. (Think DOOM, it didn''t have copy protection, yet everyone had a copy because it kicked ass). I am fed up of having to pay for a shit product, then have to pay more to fix some of the shit that was wrong with the original version... oh and to add more bloat. Great microsoft... thanks a lot. M$ should get their priorities straight. No one is going to rent software for personal use, personally I find this an outrage. Oh but you get free upgrades... yay!

Regards,
Nekosion

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quote:

I am fed up of having to pay for a shit product, then have to pay more to fix some of the shit that was wrong with the original version...

That could seem weird but... I sometimes wonder... Does M$intentionaly lets some bugs on their OS just to be able to sell more "upgrades" ? By the way, my team and I decided to launch the "Linux Operation" once our game is done and to make cross platform development. I haven''t developped any big cross-platform application yet but it seems that it constrains you to produce cleaner code (which is not a bad thing obviously). #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster If your take your mind off microsoft for a min then you can actually find out that their are a lot of other OSes. ''There are'' please. If you don''t know how to use their/there/they''re properly then email me. If it was just a typo or a slip of the mind, then please do not hit me. Just because you''re outnumbered doesn''t mean you''re wrong. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Magmai Kai Holmlor I thought BIOS stood for Built-In Operating System? Ha ha! Who told you that load of rubbish? Everyone knows it is Basic Input/Output System! Ha ha! Magmai didn''t know! Just because you''re outnumbered doesn''t mean you''re wrong. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I remember saving up$35 to get a used copy of Doom 2 . I can''t find my disks anymore, even if it is old, I still like games like that just for the nastalgic value .

"Finger to spiritual emptiness underlying everything." -- How a C manual referred to a "pointer to void." --Things People Said

http://www.gdarchive.net/druidgames/

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Yeah, I''m looking for an old cheap little PC at the moment to get Linux running on. I got 2 diffrent version of it right now: Suse and Red Hat.. Which one should I go for? I already tried Linux a year ago or so, but I had problems with my ATI Rage 128 cause ATI didn''t write any Xserver for it, I finally found one after a long time searching, the next thing was to get sound going. grumble grumble. never managed that. then the hard disk it was on broke and so I gave it up. I loved the stability it had. it was amazing. I love switching between the 6 consoles and kick a programm from the thread as soon as it was locked up :p

btw. Null & Void, thx for the "banner" :o)
cya,
Phil

Visit Rarebyte!
and no!, there are NO kangaroos in Austria (I got this questions a few times over in the states

RAW!

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quote:
Original post by Dire.Wolf

It''s funny when people say Windows isn''t as stable as Linux. What version of Windows are you talking about? Windows 9x? Windows 2000? If you are comparing Linux and Windows 2000 then you have a problem. Windows 2000 is just as stable, if not more than Linux AND it is more usable (and can handle games too).

Windows 98 SE was as stable as a rock for me. Windows Millenium gives me numerous problems but Windows 2000 Pro is rock solid.

Dire Wolf
www.digitalfiends.com

Did you ever run *nix?
Okay, so if Windows 2000 is more stable than Linux (which I highly doubt, it hasn''t crashed once on me..nor hung or locked away alot of memory for some obscure reason) is it also more stable than, say, FreeBSD? It''s also a mystery how a OS that comes with it''s UI built in can be more stable than unix that just comes with a simple consolem, seeing that the UI is the part that''s usually more buggy.

Linux''s also seems to be poor peoples choice - it doesn''t need a dual quadbazillium pentium 9 with two tb ram to run smoothly, nor does it cost anything. Windows costs quite a bit if you''re not pirating it, which i suspect many do.

phueppl1:

Why don''t you just dual-boot? If you don''t feel like repartitioning your drive you can have Linux live on your dos partition. Go for Slackware and throw away RH and suse Seriously, try both and use whatever suits you best. I tried RH back in the 2.0.34 days, that was in 1998 i reckon, but I never really liked it. And RPMs were kinda usless since I always get the source tarball when there is one - and I only have one closed source software installed (which is blender).

Bash (and likely others, like csh, tsch or zsh) is also way superior two dos/windows command.com. Just tab tab tab your way through the entire fs architecture . And page up so you won''t have to be using anything such as the /P switch that command line programs from microsoft came with.

There are games for Linux too!
www.lokigames.com
www.freeciv.org - Great game
www.tuxracer.org
and xbill hehe

If you care about security closed-source software might also be a bad choice, since it might take some days or months before there''s a new version or new service pack. With open-source you can always correct the problem yourself or get the latest kernel patch or whatever you need very soon.

One thing that bothers me is that you cannot mount your ext2 (etc.) partitions in Windows. That really pisses me off. I only use Windows for playing BGII at the moment anyways.

"This album was written, recorded and edited at Gröndal, Stockholm in the year of 2000. At this point in time money still ruled the world. Capitalistic thoughts were wide spread. From the sky filled with the fumes of a billionarie''s cigar to the deepest abyss drenched in nuclear waste. A rich kid was a happy kid, oh..dirty, filthy times. Let this be a reminder."
- Fireside, taken from back of the Elite album

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Linux isn''t for everyone.

Windows2K is stable and runs rather nice on my machine at home. Aside from SoundBlaster Driver issues that is.

.NET, WindowsXP and Office XP are all just upgrades to previous products. Many corporations still use WindowsNT and Office 97. Just because Microsoft releases a new product doesn''t meant that you have to go right out and buy it. Visual Studio 6.0 and Office 2000 running on Windows 2K is enough for me to create games. It will be at least two more years before .NET fully takes ahold of the developer community. Many games today are still being written for 9x platforms and aside from relying on backward compatibility these games aren''t certified on Windows ME or Win2K. My point here, is if the piece of software fits your NEEDS then stick with it and don''t upgrade. Why spend the money on something you do not need. (ditto P4s from Intel. PIIIs are fine and they are cheaper)

Speak with your wallet. I for one do not need the newest Office suite that can cook my breakfast if I wire it to my house. I don''t need more than VisualC++ 6.0 and until I can''t compile for the windows platform using Visual Studio, I will probably not update.

The real problem is not in their new practices, it is what Microsoft does to force people that bought its software, to repurchase by changing the architecture and invalidating their older software. The back-end of the curve is what gets me. I can choose to not use the front end of the curve.

Derek [
COLOR="#A0A0A0">Kressilac
] Licciardidirection="right" WIDTH="160">COLOR="#006555">Elysian Productions, Inc

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Thx, ill post the banner in my sig asap~

Edited by - LordElectro on February 26, 2001 1:44:38 PM

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quote:
Original post by mr BiCEPS

Is that a troll?

Probably, since he just registered on the 23rd.

BeS
It''s Da BOMB Baby!!!
. o O ~
A little nonsense now and then,
is relished by the wisest men
~ O o .
-- Willy Wonka

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Can anybody name any companies that have made most of its money by selling apps (not games) for home computers?

Only one comes to mind: Microsoft

If you decide to go into the apps market for home users, be prepaerd for failure.

Corel was doing well when it had Corel Draw 3 out. Everyone had a (pirated) copy of that. Now, the only thing keeping them afloat is a large cash infusion by, guess who, M$. If anyone can name a company, I'd like to hear it. What really bugs me about Windows, at least 95, is that when you upgrade your computer, there is barely an improvement. I installed 95 on my new computer (700 Athalon) but wanted to get the files from the old puter (PI 166). I switched them on at the same time, and the 700 took as much time as the 166, despite the fact that it has 4 times more RAM and more than 3 times the speed. WTF! Edited by - Big B on February 26, 2001 3:26:10 PM #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I have a few things to add to that. First of all, Windows XP is supposed to be an OS for the average home or small business user who does not have the technical expertise to maintain a FULL-FLEDGED operating system. Note the stress on FULL-FLEDGED. So, yes, it is made for people who are not computer literate. This, however, does not excuse the "renting" issue. I disagree completely with that. With the new improvements in version 8, DirectX is becoming more and more popular. If you are a developer and you use DirectX, you will eventually have to use Windows XP even if only as a test platform. That means you''ll suddenly have a greater monthly overhead because you are "renting" this software. As long as you use DirectX, you have to rent Windows. AHA! As for the stability of windows and the windows vs. linux issue... I''ve compiled, no... assembled a list of faults from both Windows 98/2k and Linux. I have to rebuild my Windows 98 box every month because it will no longer function. I have never had to do this with a linux box. Windows 2k is more stable than 98, requiring a rebuild every 2 or 3 months. I run Windows 98 SE and Linux as the same machine, dual boot. I tried win 2k for a while in place of 98, but gave up shortly after issue #9 occurred. Issues in Windows 98SE/2k: 1. 98: Windows won''t shut down. It hangs. 2. 98: The Start button doesn''t say "Start." It is a random mix of colors that change every time it''s clicked. 3. 98 and 2k: Icons randomly disguise themselves as other icons. 4. 2k: Explorer crashes during idle time. The desktop color is displayed for a few seconds before the applications reappear. 5. 2k: The desktop refuses to repaint itself. 6. 2k: The cursor is replaced with a square blob of corruption. 7. 98: The clock stops working. 8. 98: Hyperterminal won''t start. Ever. Illegal operation. 9. 2k: Instantly reboots when the Refresh button is clicked in Internet Explorer. Issues witn Linux-Mandrake and Redhat 6.2: 1. I''m sorry. I can''t think of any Linux issues that weren''t caused by my own ignorant actions. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Corel was doing well when it had Corel Draw 3 out. Everyone had a (pirated) copy of that. Now, the only thing keeping them afloat is a large cash infusion by, guess who, M$.

I think MS just jumped ship, they dumbed like 80% of Corel stock.

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I was wondering whether an M$products ran on Linux? Does M$ support Linux in any way?

Also I installed Linux(OpenLinux) two years ago, but due to crappy driver support and Norton Utilities messing up the partition, I stopped using it.

If we the Developers start supporting and developing for Linux, then I''m sure M\$ can be de-monopolised, we have the power.

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quote:
Original post by Mongo
With the new improvements in version 8, DirectX is becoming more and more popular. If you are a developer and you use DirectX, you will eventually have to use Windows XP even if only as a test platform. That means you''ll suddenly have a greater monthly overhead because you are "renting" this software. As long as you use DirectX, you have to rent Windows.

That''s why I use Microsoft independent API''s .

quote:
Original post by Mongo
3. 98 and 2k: Icons randomly disguise themselves as other icons.

Yeah, I''ve seen Win2K do that, I think it is a bug with the active desktop (it goes away if I refresh it). I haven''t seen the rest of the errors you''re having though.

"Finger to spiritual emptiness underlying everything." -- How a C manual referred to a "pointer to void." --Things People Said

http://www.gdarchive.net/druidgames/

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N&V, how do I look?

Knife Guy

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