Artists, programmers, and free projects

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56 comments, last by Raghar 17 years, 7 months ago
In my experience, it is about 20x harder to get an artist to be interested in working on a free project than a programmer. Programmers seem to not mind at all that they aren't paid (most seem to just look to gain experience and have fun). Artists, on the other hand, seem incredibly reluctant to do so, and many refuse to work on anything at all unless they get paid. A few months ago I was talking along the lines of this subject on an artwork forum, and many artists gave me the impression that they felt "insulted" when I spoke out about how they shy away from free projects. The response I often got was "How am I supposed to make a living if you aren't paying me?". That's a great point, but when you look at how many millions of programmers work on projects (games and otherwise) for free, the argument becomes dulled. What is the reason for this difference in attitudes? What differentiates the motives of an artist from a programmer so much when it comes to applying their skills and services without pay? And on that note, how can one do better to attract artists to work on a project for free? I bring this up because recent recruitment efforts with my own game project have been seeking out programmers and artists, and posting help wanted ads in both programmer and artists-centric mediums. We've had several programmer applicants in the last few days, but only one artist, and further no artists seem to be making any sort of comment about the game itself in these posts, while the programmers are saying several great things about it.

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Off the top of my head, I'd wonder if quality and/or skill level plays much role in this.

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What an interesting topic, i've wondered about this a lot myself. I've also noticed this as well, being a programmer its extremely difficult to get artists interested unless I program for their game, rather than them doing art for my game. Requesting artists for a game I would like to make yields very few if any results. I would love to hear from an artists perspective why they would rather work for cash, but usually never for free.

I've never met a programmer who requests money for his/her talents. The only thing I really see programmers asking for is good grammar, a design document, and a realistic project. Perhaps there is something we as programmers or game designers are not doing that attracts artists. How are we to find out what that is though, if an artist never responds to our help requests?

I should have made a post about this earlier myself. I hope to see some responses from artists.
In my experiences..

  • Artists tend to favor projects that have a high likeyhood of never being completed.
  • Artists are more easily motivated by 'new projects' rather then 'existing projects'.
  • Artists will never do artwork for you for free, however, they will spend countless hours drawing other artworks for misc things that will bring them no profit.
  • Well, as an artist myself, I can say i'm more interested in working on a project that's actually going to come to fruition, rather then a practice. Though i'm always looking for things to add to my portfolio.. a lot of artwork for games isn't portfolio material.. so if the project doesn't get finished.. all the work is for nothing.

    I think the difference between a programmer and an artist is.. programming you can save that code and use it elsewhere.. you may develop some function for super-duper collision detection.. and even if the project you wrote it for initially doesn't go anywyere, you can copy and paste it into some other game and still use the code.

    plus, i don't think artists need as much 'practice' as programmers do.. there are always a slew of new problems you have to solve when you are programming.. but other then learning some new program, once you've mastered art, it's just repetition.. the end product may be different, but you are using the same skill set.

    Quote:Original post by aegrimonia
    Well, as an artist myself, I can say i'm more interested in working on a project that's actually going to come to fruition, rather then a practice.


    Lies! I saw you working on that wedding dress sprite for the hulk.
    Quote:Original post by aegrimoniaI think the difference between a programmer and an artist is.. programming you can save that code and use it elsewhere.. you may develop some function for super-duper collision detection.. and even if the project you wrote it for initially doesn't go anywyere, you can copy and paste it into some other game and still use the code.

    While we can use that code anywhere, first we must modify it to work with whatever we're working on, much like an artist should be able to modify some of their other artwork to work with whatever project they're working on.

    Thevenin: Funny indeed how 2D artists will spend time drawing useless 2D pixel art that will get them nowhere, make them no money... Sure it'll go on their portfolio, but what will paying customers want to look for? People who can draw art that has no relation to anything? or someone who can work with a team and produce art that all fits together in the same world?
    Quote:Original post by Thevenin
    Quote:Original post by aegrimonia
    Well, as an artist myself, I can say i'm more interested in working on a project that's actually going to come to fruition, rather then a practice.


    Lies! I saw you working on that wedding dress sprite for the hulk.


    hehe.. well.. maybe in the 'old days' i would fiddle with stuff like that.. i'm 32.. i've worked on a ton of projects that didn't go anywhere.. and it made me lose interest in it for a while.. i'm slowing getting back involved in it.. i'll get into a project when one catches my fancy.. and i feel like a finished game will come of it.. which is why i'm looking for a small game to work on.. no MMORPG's or etc.

    Quote:Original post by Thevenin

  • Artists will never do artwork for you for free, however, they will spend countless hours drawing other artworks for misc things that will bring them no profit.


  • hahah, that is about the most succinct assessment Ive seen yet:) My life is full of artistic types, and that sounds very correct:)

    You guys are all referring ot graphic artists, of course.
    In the music composition side of art, we are trying our damndest to get people to -quit- working for free. Music is a very saturated field, and everybody is looking for a break. THe more people who are willing to work "for free just to get experience", the less value our craft gets as a whole, and we all make less money in the long run.
    I can attest that this difference in attitudes towards work between artist and programmer extends beyond the hobbyist sphere and into the professional. In my time having worked professionally as a game programmer (a little over a year now), time and time again it is the programmers that stay late to work further while the artists go home at a time (say 6 PM) that would be considered standard outside of the game development industry. While sure, it could be argued that the nature of the programmer's work tends to simply demand more time (programs will have bugs that require fixing...but if the art looks good, it's done), and that that is the main reason why programmers stay late, I believe there's a more fundamental issue at play here.

    In short, in my opinion, the programmer is more passionate (read: more obsessive) about the work. This is not simply a job for them, this is their life -- they live and breathe the code. For the artist, however, it is more simply a job, and most definitely not their lives; artists do tend to be more "normal" and less "obsessive" about their work than programmers in my experience, and have social lives that tend to be more socially acceptable outside of the game industry. Considering this theory, it seems to make sense that the programmer would want to stay late, to continue doing the work they love, while the artist would be more likely to scoff at the idea of working "unreasonable" hours for (what is likely) meager pay. The artist would be more apt to quit under bad work conditions, whereas the excited, driven, and naive programmer is simply happy to be there and is likely to put up with whatever he has to so that he can be allowed to program games professionally.

    I believe that, for better or worse, these are elements of the commonly accepted culture that we live in, and that we all (to at least some degree) subconsciously buy into and so perceive as normal and expect, and that we ourselves perpetuate (knowingly or not). Consequently, this will naturally carry over into the hobbyist sphere as well, where the artist doesn't want to waste his time on work he's not getting paid for, though the programmer sees the act of coding as an end in itself.

    I realize that my analysis has painted the programmers as the real liberal artists and the artists as the more vulgar, illiberal wage-oriented folks. I do want to say that I don't mean offense by it, as artists can be very idealistic and driven people as well, and that there are always plenty of cases that break the mold. Still, I feel pretty confident about this, and I'm curious about what an artist's response would be.
    - Hai, watashi no chichi no kuruma ga oishikatta desu!...or, in other words, "Yes, my dad's car was delicious!"

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